JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,100 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Nov 21, 2011, 8:28pm Subject: Re: Breville BES900XL Best For Pricepoint
Dave,
$1200 (well, OK, $1,199.95) is a difficult price point, and in that, Breville hit a niche -- seemingly providing more than any other machine at that price point, which is after all, populated only by HX machines. IF you take the position that a DB is somehow better than an HX -- something rejected by most¹ -- then the Breville BES900XLis "it" at this price. Virtually all the other serious options at this price (+/- 10%) are HX models: 1) the Bezzera BZ07 spm ($1,199.00) 2) the Fiorenzato Volante ($1,299 -- on sale), but this is a direct connect model which, naturally, limits its appeal for some. 3) the Nuova Simonelli Oscar ($1,050.00).
Now were it me making the purchase, quite honestly, I would probably buy them in that order, with the Breville ranked 4th. But a) the concept of "cooling flush" is not at all intimidating, and is in fact quite easy, and b) EACH of these machines has a solid track record. The Breville may indeed be a fine machine, but it's too new for ME to count on -- that is, I do not want to be the "guinea pig"; for $1,000+ (the "plus" being the grinder), I want to trust the machine . . . Breville has too much baggage for me to trust a brand new model right out of the box. As I've said, a year from now and the story may be quite different.
davenfi22 Said:
So what ended up in the cup was decent? What about the build quality? . . . in regards to the concerns around parts and connectors that are not metal, this seems to be of some concern, is it a valid one?
Well, using plastic where others use metal is ONE way to keep the price down, but guess what I'd rather have . . .
Cheers, Jason
¹ There is no difference in quality in terms of what is in the cup between HX and DB machines (all else being equal). OTOH, although the cooling flush is much easier to DO than it is to describe, "newbies" find the idea very intimidating. Of course, driving a car is far more complicated, but you wouldn't know it by the way people obsess over it. Nonetheless, for this reason, the DB may indeed be easier -- or at least, less intimidating -- for the proverbial newbie.
joeldamianicigan Senior Member Joined: 5 Jun 2011 Posts: 41 Location: Fresno, CA Expertise: Just starting
Vac Pot: No Drip: Mr. Coffee
Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011, 5:04pm Subject: Re: Breville BES900XL Best For Pricepoint
If only some of the electronics of the Breville BES900XL could find their way into a higher end "prosumer" machine like the Izzo Alex Duetto II or Rocket Giotto Premium Plus. I like those machines a lot but they seem to be missing some of the little "bells and whistles" of the Breville BES900XL.
Since the current Rockets are nearing the end of their life cycle I would anticipate a new machine to be released sometime soon. I feel I need to hold off until then to make my first purchase of an espresso machine. I really like the look of an E61 grouphead as well as the polished stainless steel casing. The PID and menu system of the Izzo Alex Duetto II is commercial in nature and leaves more to be desired. What I mean is that it's not as "user friendly" as the Breville's LCD and designed more for a commercial / "prosumer" application. Plus, you could get burned if you're not careful with it's placement.
For most, what ends up in the "cup" is all that counts. For me, the process of pulling the shot and the aesthetics of the machine itself mean equally as much. I like the industrial look of the prosumer machines but wish they included some of the electronics that are geared to the consumer.
Slayer espresso is supposedly coming out with a machine for the home. Their commercial machine is pretty awesome as it incorporates a newer technology in terms of temperature profiling. Perhaps they will release their machine around the time that I will make my decision...
Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011, 5:36pm Subject: Re: Breville BES900XL Best For Pricepoint
joeldamianicigan Said:
... Since the current Rockets are nearing the end of their life cycle I would anticipate a new machine to be released sometime soon. I feel I need to hold off until then to make my first purchase of an espresso machine.
Do you know something the rest of us don't? Prosumer espresso machines are not like consumer devices that get replaced every year or so. The prosumer machines have a very long life cycle. Manufacturers like Rocket regularly improve their machines. But, they rarely make wholesale changes. As an example, the Giotto Premium Plus is based on the Giotto Classic that has been around for at least 7 years. The Silvia design is over 10 years old.
joeldamianicigan Senior Member Joined: 5 Jun 2011 Posts: 41 Location: Fresno, CA Expertise: Just starting
Vac Pot: No Drip: Mr. Coffee
Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011, 6:49pm Subject: Re: Breville BES900XL Best For Pricepoint
dsblv Said:
Do you know something the rest of us don't? Prosumer espresso machines are not like consumer devices that get replaced every year or so. The prosumer machines have a very long life cycle. Manufacturers like Rocket regularly improve their machines. But, they rarely make wholesale changes. As an example, the Giotto Premium Plus is based on the Giotto Classic that has been around for at least 7 years. The Silvia design is over 10 years old.
I was told that Rocket should be releasing a new machine sometime in the near future. Actually, Kat at Seattle Coffee Gear confirmed my notion. Not sure how reliable that source is but with all this new technology (i.e. Slayer's machine) most companies should jump on the bandwagon and embrace it.
The Breville BES900XL is a nice machine but I'd probably only test it out for 90 days and then return it. It's not something I'd really want displayed on my granite countertop amidst a Viking range and other high-end industrial appliances. I've never seen the machine in person though, only videos and pictures on the Web. The look of it doesn't impress me much.
Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011, 9:39pm Subject: Re: Breville BES900XL Best For Pricepoint
Oy vey....again with the granite countertop! Perhaps you should enter "granite countertop" in the "equipment owned" section of your profile and be done with it. And it's the members here who are SNOBS!!!!! Hilarious thread, 10/10, would read again.
espresso_drinker Senior Member Joined: 26 Oct 2011 Posts: 51 Location: Austin, Texas Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011, 9:58pm Subject: Re: Breville BES900XL Best For Pricepoint
joeldamianicigan Said:
The Breville BES900XL is a nice machine but I'd probably only test it out for 90 days and then return it. It's not something I'd really want displayed on my granite countertop amidst a Viking range and other high-end industrial appliances. I've never seen the machine in person though, only videos and pictures on the Web. The look of it doesn't impress me much.
I'm a bit curious why you've taken such effort to find out what the machine is capable of doing if you've already decided the BDB won't end up on your counter top due to lack of visual appeal. It's not like this machine is the 599GTB of espresso machines where you can brag to others you've pulled shots and steamed milk on a Breville Dual Boiler.... ?
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