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Espresso: Espresso Machines
Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Silvia/Rocky...

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SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 10:37am Subject: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

Hello all! I would really like to hear from owners of the Rocky/Silvia combo who are consistantly getting delicious shots and can't wait for the next one. Not people who know someone else who does, but an actual satisfied owner! I would really like to know what you are doing to achieve this? I bought these machines new almost a year ago. I have spent a year trying to get something drinkable with them. I have fiddled endlessly with all the variables I can think of. I am currently using freshly roasted (within a week) esspresso beans from HasBean UK, Rocky set at 1 (just off zero), I'm using filtered water, 16g of coffee in a double portafilter, tamping at exactly 30lb, water temp at grouphead is 92deg C (in styrofoam cup), Pump pressure is exactly 9 bar, pour is 23 seconds. Result is 2oz of truely vile tasting sour liquid which then goes straight down the sink! I was prepared for a bit of a learning curve with the Silvia but after almost a year I was hoping to have done better than this. It's breaking my heart (and my pocket) to pour away all this expensive coffee, especially as I still have to go to a coffee shop to get a decent espresso! I have joined Coffeegeek to ask for help before deciding to put the lot on ebay and go and get a pod machine... If you've got a Silvia/Rocky what do you do?? Many thanks, Steve.

aviationnut
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Dec 2009
Posts: 15
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Office Lever
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: None
Drip: Cuisinart, Bodum French...
Roaster: Popcorn Popper

Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 11:21am Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

Welcome! I had a Gaggia Classic which is also pretty finicky. Have you tried dosing 17-18g of coffee? I could not get a decent shot out of my Gaggia if I didn't have at least 17g. Are you temp surfing?

SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 11:49am Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

Thank you for the welcome! Yes I have tried 17/18g and I also temp surf.

scanfield
Senior Member

Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 172
Location: Texas
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: La Nuovo Era Cuadra
Grinder: Baratza Vario

Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 12:38pm Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

Posts like yours scare the crap out of me. I'm contemplating an espresso machine for my home from the same category as your Silvia (a LeLit or CC1 probably) and I'm afraid that I'm going to end up with a counter full of expensive equipment that I can use to make a drinkable cappuccino or latte, but not great espresso. If you really have been dropping a few dollars every day at a coffee shop for the past year, you are probably somewhat friendly with the barista. Any chance they would be willing to help you? If you are very lucky, they will let you bring your machine in sometime when they aren't busy or after hours and check out what you are doing. It worked for Mark Frauenfelder of BoingBoing.

JGG
Senior Member

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,343
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E (A), SJ; Rocky...
Roaster: Hottop D w/PID; Thermometric...

Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 1:10pm Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

A few inexpensive things I would try first: Replace the stock Rancilio basket with something better. I have Synesso (supposedly) ridgeless double baskets and they are much better than the stock Rancilio baskets. Either buy a bottomless portafilter, or use a hole saw to convert yours. The problem could be channeling, and a bottomless PF will help you recognize it. If your espresso is sour, then the beans might not be roasted enough for your taste. Try different varieties and different roast levels. Google around a bit for "WDT". This will help you get a good distribution of grounds in the basket. You might also consider investing in an inexpensive thermometer to mount on the top of your boiler. This will help very much with the reverse temperature surfing that is necessary to get the best results from a Silvia. Past those inexpensive things, I think most people (myself included) will tell you that the Rocky is probably the weak link in your setup. But I would try the things I suggested before seriously considering a grinder upgrade. Jim

RossG
Senior Member

Joined: 6 Sep 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Sacramento, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Giotto Premium Plus V2
Grinder: Virtuoso Preciso, Hario...
Drip: Bodum, Clever

Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 4:18pm Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

When was the last time you descaled your machine? Backflushed? Really cleaned your portaholder? When you're dealing with 2oz of liquid, even a 1/4oz (which is a teeny amount, after all) of rancid burned coffee left in the grouphead will make your shot undrinkable. I'll also second what scanfield said: go to a coffee shop when its pretty empty, start a conversation with the barista and ask to prepare a shot on his machine (I mean just dosing into the basket and tamping, let him work the actual machine). If it turns out ok, you know its something wrong with the Silvia. FWIW: I have a Virtuoso Preciso, and a Silvia that turned out to be a few years older than I thought when I bought it second hand. My first shot of the day is usually pretty crap, but most of the time I can adjust and with temp surfing (which I actually like, makes it feel more like an art and less like a science) can pull a pretty decent (to my taste) shot.

chasemonster
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 364
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Audrey
Grinder: Hario Mini Mill
Drip: V60

Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 8:38pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

SteveCockrell Said:

I'm using filtered water, 16g of coffee in a double portafilter, tamping at exactly 30lb, water temp at grouphead is 92deg C (in styrofoam cup), Pump pressure is exactly 9 bar, pour is 23 seconds. Result is 2oz of truely vile tasting sour liquid which then goes straight down the sink!

Posted November 30, 2011 link

My advice would be to start aiming for 1oz in 23 seconds rather than 2 oz. This should make the shot more concentrated and syrupy, and possibly sweeter tasting.
This 1oz extraction would be easier to achieve at a consistent level if you first upgraded your grinder to a Baratza Vario.
To do it with a Rocky, you will have to grind at a finer setting than what you are currently using.
But don't tamp at 30lbs at this new finer setting or you will choke your machine.
Instead, experiment using a very light (but thorough) nutation tamp, with the only pressure being the weight of your tamper.
If the new shot at the finer grinder setting runs faster than 1oz in 23 seconds, apply a little more pressure to the tamp the next time. Or, set the grinder to 1 more setting finer, etc. until it starts coming out right.

takeshi
Senior Member

Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 756
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Amaya Roasting

Posted Thu Dec 1, 2011, 7:55am
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

SteveCockrell Said:

Result is 2oz of truely vile tasting sour liquid which then goes straight down the sink!

Posted November 30, 2011 link

IIRC rule of thumb for sour is: raise the temperature, trying stopping lighter and grinding finer.

JGG Said:

I think most people (myself included) will tell you that the Rocky is probably the weak link in your setup.

Posted November 30, 2011 link

+1 If your research guides you to the Silvia and Rocky then you really need to go back and look at the dates of the stuff you're reading. They're really not as recommended these days.

The other points are good suggestions as well. Also consider that Silvia really doesn't respond well to overdosing (and it doesn't take much to overdose a Silvia). And don't fixate too much on the tamping. As stated in countless other threads, tamping pressure is one of the least important things. I usually just the weight of my Reg Barber tamp the grounds when loading my Silvia. That said though, I haven't used a Rocky with my Silvia in years.

scanfield Said:

Posts like yours scare the crap out of me. I'm contemplating an espresso machine for my home from the same category as your Silvia (a LeLit or CC1 probably) and I'm afraid that I'm going to end up with a counter full of expensive equipment that I can use to make a drinkable cappuccino or latte, but not great espresso.

Posted November 30, 2011 link

Consider the finicky reputation of the Silvia when reading comments on the Silvia.

SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Thu Dec 1, 2011, 3:43pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

RossG Said:

When was the last time you descaled your machine? Backflushed? Really cleaned your portaholder?

Posted November 30, 2011 link

I descaled and backflushed the day before my first post. Really gave everything a good cleaning.

SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Thu Dec 1, 2011, 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

JGG Said:

If your espresso is sour, then the beans might not be roasted enough for your taste. Try different varieties and different roast levels.

Posted November 30, 2011 link

These beans are all a fairly light roast. On the packet they say things like "in the cup expect honey sweetness, a burst of oranges, zingy acidity like fresh white wine..." etc. etc..... These all sound to me like things which if I could taste them (which I can't) I wouldn't want in my coffee anyway. I just want it to taste like... well coffee.
I've bought some Illy beans to try. See how they go.

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