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Espresso: Espresso Machines
Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Silvia/Rocky...

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SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Thu Dec 1, 2011, 4:06pm Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

Hello all! I would really like to hear from owners of the Rocky/Silvia combo who are consistantly getting delicious shots and can't wait for the next one. x] Anyone out there?

SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Thu Dec 1, 2011, 4:37pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

takeshi Said:

IIRC rule of thumb for sour is: raise the temperature, trying stopping lighter and grinding finer.

Posted December 1, 2011 link

How do you raise the temperature on a Silvia?

JGG
Senior Member

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,343
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E (A), SJ; Rocky...
Roaster: Hottop D w/PID; Thermometric...

Posted Thu Dec 1, 2011, 6:37pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

SteveCockrell Said:

These beans are all a fairly light roast. On the packet they say things like "in the cup expect honey sweetness, a burst of oranges, zingy acidity like fresh white wine..." etc. etc..... These all sound to me like things which if I could taste them (which I can't) I wouldn't want in my coffee anyway. I just want it to taste like... well coffee.
I've bought some Illy beans to try. See how they go.

Posted December 1, 2011 link

Illy will stale quickly after opening. The beans you are using now sound pretty bright, maybe "sour" to your taste. Suggest that you stay with fresh roasted (not Illy), but a little darker, less bright roast.

To answer your initial question, I consistently get very good (once in a while great) shots from a Silvia and home roasted beans. I have a pretty high tech temperature controller on the Silvia, and that definitely helps. My grinder is a Mazzer Super Jolly, and I threw away the Rancilio baskets years ago.

Jim

JGG
Senior Member

Posted Thu Dec 1, 2011, 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

SteveCockrell Said:

How do you raise the temperature on a Silvia?

Posted December 1, 2011 link

Temperature surfing or digital electronic PID controller.

Jim

SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Fri Dec 2, 2011, 4:59pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

JGG Said:

Posted December 1, 2011 link

Yes I have heard that Illy stale quickly. I have just tried pulling a shot with them freshly opened and the result is - surprisingly delicious! The "sourness" seems to have gone right down and just become part of the overall taste. The natural acidity I suppose? The beans are definitely darker than the previous ones. Could it be that I just don't have particularly sophisticated taste in coffee and cannot appreciate the finer nuances of lighter roasts? There seems to be no sweetness or "nuttiness" there at all. Only tongue curdling sourness. Here in Europe most espresso seems to be roasted pretty dark. Maybe that's just what I'm used to? Glad to hear that you are consistently getting good shots from your Silvia Jim. That's reassured me!

Thanks everyone for your helpful comments. I feel I have now picked up enough tips to go back to my home roasting and experiment with the darker roasts. I also intend going to my friendly coffee shop and asking them to grind the rest of those beans for me in their professional grinder so that I can see if there is any difference from the Rocky. I would like to achieve better results with the equipment I have before thinking of a grinder upgrade or a PID.

Steve.

zedex
Senior Member

Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 126
Location: B.C Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz v2
Grinder: vario

Posted Fri Dec 2, 2011, 6:16pm Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

I get consistent good shots with my silvia. The beans need to be fresh and the older they get ,the finer you need to grind.No such thing as set it and forget it. The machine is PID controlled though and my grinder is a vario. I have owned my machine for about 5 years or so, so i know whats going on when i have sink shots. Its always the beans or the grind.After about 3 weeks my fresh beans are not so fresh and shot quality drops off and my grind needs to be adjusted finer.Usually at the end of my 1 lb bag, i am glad they are gone. My shots are usually still fairly appealing but flavor drops off substantially. IMO your grinder is the weak link in your setup. A PID wouldn't hurt either. Good luck.

clumeng
Senior Member

Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vivaldi II, 67 Cremina
Grinder: Vario, Maestro, Pharos
Vac Pot: Aeropress
Drip: Technivorm, Chemex

Posted Fri Dec 2, 2011, 10:48pm Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

Back to the grinder - you said it is set at 1 - is this the written "1" on the hopper or +1 from the found true zero point (when the blades just touch) I got a brand new Rocky and it was never perfect - I took it apart, did the teflon tape modification and it was better but I still only have 1-2 knotches where it was usable. I was skeptical of grinder upgrades but when I got a Mazzer Super Jolly - MAN was there a clear taste improvement in the cup. Good luck - I'd find a cafe that makes a good espresso you like - ask for the beans (do NOT pre grind) and put it through your machine to see how close. The PID does make a huge difference - only way to really control the temperature well in a Silvia.

JGG
Senior Member

Posted Sat Dec 3, 2011, 9:33am
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

SteveCockrell Said:

Could it be that I just don't have particularly sophisticated taste in coffee and cannot appreciate the finer nuances of lighter roasts? There seems to be no sweetness or "nuttiness" there at all. Only tongue curdling sourness. Here in Europe most espresso seems to be roasted pretty dark. Maybe that's just what I'm used to?

Posted December 2, 2011 link

Easy to overlook the beans themselves while stressing over the technical aspects of building a shot :-)

My wife and I have settled into a pretty narrow range of roast levels that we like (eject a little before 2C). This taste preference has evolved and I now appreciate a good bit of citrus taste in my espresso. But there was a time that citrus taste meant a sink shot for me!

Until you have found a blend (or SO) that you like, none of the rest of it matters much.

You haven't said anything about letting the machine warm up fully, or attempting to temperature surf the Silvia. Both of these are things you should get in the habit of doing.

Jim

SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Wed Dec 7, 2011, 3:41pm
Subject: Re: Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

clumeng Said:

Back to the grinder - you said it is set at 1 - is this the written "1" on the hopper or +1 from the found true zero point (when the blades just touch)

Posted December 2, 2011 link

It's 1 on the hopper which is actually +2 from true zero. Funny though with the illy beans I can now set it to 5. I also have done the teflon tape mod. Not sure if it improves it or not.

SteveCockrell
Senior Member

Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Vario
Roaster: Alpenrost

Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 5:43pm Subject: Coffee nirvana! - was:Silvia/Rocky owners please help - All curve and no coffee!

Well, four months after my original post - with the help and advice offered by all you coffeegeek members - I have moved from coffee purgatory to coffee heaven! Thought I owed it to the folks here to come back and say "thanks" and describe how with your help I eventually achieved the transition - just in case anyone is still interested? The first thing was to ditch the Rocky and replace it with a Vario. The second was to find a regular supply of fresh roasted beans which I really really like. There were then three variables which I had to overcome: 1 - my complete inability to tamp consistently despite years of practice (some of us will just never get the knack!); 2 - my complete inability to tamp level (causing channelling); 3 - the new Vario's tendency when at the right setting, to scatter grounds all over the worktop thereby causing inconsistent dosing. After much experimentation (I will spare you the blow-by-blow account) I ended up with the following setup/technique:- Preheat Sylvia 30 mins. Dose using a large size "bord trichter" from Tidikas of Germany Click Here (www.tidaka.net) this wonderful device ensures not only that every grain of coffee ends up in the portafilter and not all over the worktop, but also makes it virtually impossible to tamp crooked! Tamp with a 57mm curved base tamper (just a single light tamp), this pushes some of the coffee to the edges of the basket, followed by a 30lb tamp with a 58mm flat bottomed Espro calibrated training tamper http://www.espro.ca/tamper/. Remove the "bord trichter" and give a NSEW tamp to prevent any channelling, followed by a light twist to polish! The result is shot after shot of the most delicious coffee I have ever tasted. Had I known it was going to take me almost 18 months with the Silvia just to learn how pull a good shot, and also how much extra clobber and wasted coffee it was going to cost me (the learning curve for the Silvia is truly horrendous), I think I would probably have stuck with my £90 DeLonghi with its little plastic "crema enhancer", but, having stuck the course, I am now really loving the results! Kind regards to you all!

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