Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Silvia Factory...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 3 last page next page
Author Messages
dman777
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Posts: 236
Location: austin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Silvia- No PID
Grinder: Compak k3 touch
Drip: french press
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 6:05am
Subject: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

I emailed the rancillio and asked what the OVP pressure is set at from the factory. I wanted to share the official results. They stated 12 bars. Kind of upsetting, because the Silvia is an excellent machine. But I guess if a person buys one they should expect to spend money on a gauge and re-adjust it.




Dear Darin,



Thank you for your recent request. The OVP pressure should be set at 12 bars.













Best regards,

Samantha Walters

Customer Service Support

Rancilio North America, Inc.

www.rancilio.com





>>>>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>>>>>



Darin



1/17/2012



I own a V3 Silvia. Can you please tell me what the factory OPV pressure setting is at in the measurement of bars?

Thank you,
-Darin
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,023
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 6:18am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

What's wrong with that value? After all you wouldn't want the over pressure valve to open at brewing pressure.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 6:45am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

dman777 Said:

Silvia is an excellent machine.

Posted January 19, 2012 link

For a SBDU machine, and it is over priced for what is available in the marketplace today.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
dman777
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Posts: 236
Location: austin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Silvia- No PID
Grinder: Compak k3 touch
Drip: french press
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 7:33am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

oh...maybe I asked the wrong question? I was trying to figure out what the pressure is in bars to see if it is close to the 9 bar pressure that is supposed to be for espsressos. How do I ask this in the correct tech. terms?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JGG
Senior Member
JGG
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,376
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Hottop D w/HTC+TC4C
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 7:35am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

NobbyR Said:

After all you wouldn't want the over pressure valve to open at brewing pressure.

Posted January 19, 2012 link

Take a look at the pump curve for the Ulka pump in a Silvia.  You'll see that it spits out more water at 9 bar than you want going to the puck.  The OPV has to be open at brew pressure to shunt some of the pump output away from the puck.

Jim
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
JGG
Senior Member
JGG
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,376
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Hottop D w/HTC+TC4C
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 7:41am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

dman777 Said:

oh...maybe I asked the wrong question? I was trying to figure out what the pressure is in bars to see if it is close to the 9 bar pressure that is supposed to be for espsressos. How do I ask this in the correct tech. terms?

Posted January 19, 2012 link

To have a brew pressure of 9 bar, you want a reading of 9.5 or 10.0 bar on a gauge when the grouphead flow has been blocked by the gauge or a blind filter.

Jim
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,023
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 7:55am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

JGG Said:

Take a look at the pump curve for the Ulka pump in a Silvia.  You'll see that it spits out more water at 9 bar than you want going to the puck.  The OPV has to be open at brew pressure to shunt some of the pump output away from the puck.

Jim

Posted January 19, 2012 link

Well, most espresso machine pumps can build up a (theoretical) maximum pressure of 15 bar or even more that has nothing to do with brewing pressure, even though manufacturers use is falsely in advertising as a quality trait. IMHO the overpressure valve doesn't regulate brewing pressure as much as it prevents damage from the machine. 12 bar isn't an unusual factory setting for it.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,351
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 8:02am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

Heees BAAaaaack..

They set it to that to operate within specs for pods, or so I have heard. So why have an adjustable pressure relief valve but no pressure gauge? Why worry about the brew pressure which is manageable with grinder settings when the temperature of the water is controlled by a $3 part that has such a wide deadband that it makes getting great espresso extremely difficult?

I agree that it would be of some benefit to have the pressure set to apply no more than the maximum desired force at the coffee. It is not difficult to do, and you can rig up your own pressure gauge mounted to a portafilter with little difficulty or even buy a kit that adds one to the machine. It doesn't even have to be mounted as it can exist externally or be done with a quick-release so that it can be fitted to check the pressure then removed. Why doesn't Rancilio do that? Why should they when the sales of the things are excellent? The Silvia is a sideline to them to some extent. It is the only home machine they sell as they are primarily a commercial supplier. The history of the machine would indicate that they are less concerned about performance and improvement in the espresso it creates and more about sales. There have been no improvements in the way the machine works for a good ten years. At least one expert stated that they have cheapened it in that time (110C T'stat changed to 100C becasue people complained about the steam at the group, the shiny metal cover of the exposed portion of the group is now plastic as examples). Rancilio has changed the steam knob, the portafilter, the logo badge, and the design of the holes in the drip tray cover. I may have only been doing this for eleven years, so feel as a comparative newbie, but from what I have learned in that time, none of those changes affect crema production.

Silvia is a good machine, and made well enough to work in a home environment for many years if properly maintained. During that time it will spit out an espresso product comparable to machines costing quite a bit less. An espresso machine is excellent if it makes excellent espresso. If it doesn't, it's only an excellent way to keep recipes from blowing off the kitchen counter. Judged only by the espresso it makes, it is a good starter machine that is overpriced.

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
stefano65
Senior Member
stefano65
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,403
Location: Eugene OR
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme,Elektra,
Grinder: Vario,Macap,
Vac Pot: not
Drip: not
Roaster: not
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 8:14am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

I just tested one (brand new of course) few days ago before shipping it out to a customer and was at 9-10 range

 
Stefano Cremonesi
info@espressocare.com
www.espressocare.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
JGG
Senior Member
JGG
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,376
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Hottop D w/HTC+TC4C
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 8:25am
Subject: Re: Silvia Factory Set At 12 Bars Pressure.
 

NobbyR Said:

IMHO the overpressure valve doesn't regulate brewing pressure as much as it prevents damage from the machine. 12 bar isn't an unusual factory setting for it.

Posted January 19, 2012 link

This is a common perception, and not entirely off the mark.  But the OPV does much more than that on machines with vibe pumps.

To get the full picture you have to consider that to brew a double, for instance, you need to deliver to the grouphead somewhere around 60 cc of water during a 25 second period.  This is an average flow of 144 cc/min.

The Ulka pump curve shows the pump output is around 260 cc/min at 9 bar.  So in this example the OPV needs to shunt 116 cc/min (260 - 144 = 116) away from the puck to maintain the desired rate of extraction.  

If the OPV is not open and shunting the excess flow, then to pull a 60 cc double in 25 seconds, you'd have to adjust the grind finer so that the pressure rises to around 12 bar.  This is because you have to be at a point on the pump curve that corresponds to only 144 cc/min since 100% of the pump output would go to the puck.  If you didn't change the grind to increase the pressure, then the pump output would stay at 260 cc/min and your shot would gush 60 cc in less than 15 seconds.

Jim
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 1 of 3 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Silvia Factory...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.43914103508)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+