glcoffee Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2012 Posts: 67 Location: Los Angeles, CA & Taiwan Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Izzo Alex II Grinder: Vario Drip: Hario V60
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2012, 11:23pm Subject: Re: I take my espressos with milk, considering BES900XL (BDB). Opinons?
First, thanks for the warm welcome.
One disclaimer that I failed to mention was the absolute necessity of purchasing from either Amazon.com or Costco.com; Due to their impeccable customer service and no-frills return policy. (Disclaimer: I do not work for them, so this is based on my personal experience). I do find it a bit apprehensive to purchase high coin items from brick & motar or online only shops; please don't take this offensive as it is my personal comfort zone. With that being said, my purchase selection is narrowed down to whatever these two companies carry.
As for research, it was this Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread: http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/566347 that brought me to the site. Have been lurking for the past few months now and finally came to a decision to post as I am ready to purchasing an espresso unit. Kat & team from SeattleCoffee gear had done a great job in introducing the BES900xl and explained in very layman/novice terms for people like me to understand: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeattleCoffeeGear.
My goal with this machine to to learn the ropes of making espresso. Hopefully, my purchase will be a machine that can provide some guidance (read: auto settings) and be capable of fine tuning once I get to that point.
Its been months of reading all things espresso and I can really do some much as phrases such as naked porta-filter extraction, dose, proper tampering, not to sink shots, etc. are nothing but text as I have no idea what it truly is or feels like.
To me, the BES900XL is like meeting that hot girl across the room. She's all that with a cherry on top, but you do hear the rumors of how high-maintenance she might become (BDB requires waters filters every 2 months and professional de-scaling) and possible OPV issues. But, there is something about her that still entices you for a second look and welcome you to take her home. And thus is the reason for my posting; to knock some logical sense into me from people like you, ones that I consider experts in this field.
I want to make espresso drinks with make. The machine has to be user-friendly, but at the same time allow me to tinker around a bit.
jwoodyu Said:
OP - it makes all the difference when you start popping out truly whip a** espresso. It's an old song but let me sing it for you again "grinder grinder grinder" then spend the balance on the machine.
Yep, I've read this many times. What would you consider a good candidate for a novice like me? Honestly, at this point, I can not tell a difference if you had messed up an espresso shot. My palate is still on cruise control have only been accustom to chains like Seattle's Best and $tarbucks.
emradguy Said:
It's best to figure out what you want from the machine and then go find out which machine fits your needs, instead of finding a machine you "like" and then see if it'll do. IMO, you should do your research and then go shopping.
I want a machine that I can easily learn with and have enough settings for when I become more advance. My main goal is to make milk drinks, learn what an espresso and to make latte art. I'm a stubborn shoe as I like to do things hands on and not rely on fully automatic machines.
Endo Said:
See the never-ending BES900XL thread from "Bump-aDude". He has an answer for everything.
I agree. Read other threads. Not only will you get an idea how much variety there is out there, but you'll also see questions asked that you hadn't thought of that will be pertinent to your decision.
Short answer (to the coffee hiding in the milk question) is yes, it matters how good you espresso is. I drink espresso based milk drinks. Sometimes as weak as a latte and sometimes as strong as a macchiato - depends on my mood.
Good cooks don't put lousy wine in their food, and they don't buy the cheapest possible lousy meat they can since they're going to make a sauce for it either.
Bottom line is the best ingredients set you up for the best results. Think "garbage in, garbage out".
Thanks, this clearly makes sense and thus reaffirms my purchasing decision. I have been desensitize from my years of Starbucks and Seattle's Best chains, I have been rating my drinks as only "sweet" or "not sweet enough". Hopefully, getting into my own espresso machine will introduce new vocabularies to my taste bud.
EricBNC Said:
Get yourself a Silvano and a Preciso for that same money. You will be happy.
Thank you for the warm welcome. Are there any specific BES900XL threads that I should be aware? I know of the OPV issue, de-scaling requirement, filters, and questionable reliability. I have not purchased any Breville products prior, as this will be my first experience with an espresso machine from any make.
IMAWriter Said:
You can get similar results spending hundreds less. Any good espresso machine $400 and up can steam milk satisfactorily.
Please use our Consumer reviews, and also there are MANY searchable threads that will explain in detail the differences in machines. The combo you mention has several threads here.
“Some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again.” C.S. Lewis, The World's Last Night ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ I am Taiwanese.
glcoffee Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2012 Posts: 67 Location: Los Angeles, CA & Taiwan Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Izzo Alex II Grinder: Vario Drip: Hario V60
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 12:34am Subject: Re: I take my espressos with milk, considering BES900XL (BDB). Opinons?
For the grinder, I have decided on the Rancilio Rocky Doserless. Now for the machine :)
“Some day you will be old enough to start reading fairy tales again.” C.S. Lewis, The World's Last Night ------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ I am Taiwanese.
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 6:39am Subject: Re: I take my espressos with milk, considering BES900XL (BDB). Opinons?
The only thing I have to chime in with here.... when you purchase something like this from Amazon or Costco, do they have any type of warranty/care plan?
(Not being snarky, I really don't know! )
We bought from 1st-line, and besides reading good reviews on here and other boards, they also work on your machines. I forget the amount of time the warranty covers... but after that I believe they still do, just for a price. (Please, don't quote me. I'm probably misquoting information here. )
Point is, that was a dealbreaker for us. I'm sure with time we'll know the machine okay enough to at least diagnose the problem, but I doubt we'll ever be perfectly comfortable repairing a problem. So it's important to know that we have that option!
Rocky is not a BAD grinder but others have risen and have been shown to be better grinders for the same money or less, YMMV!
Regardless of your past coffee shop history, you will, let me say that again, YOU WILL notice the difference with a good grinder first!
The biggest thing with the BDB right now is that it is made by Breveill. In the U.S. they have a much less than sparkling rep for quality. On paper, that machine looks great and there are several members with them and they love them. Most of the long time members though can not recommend that machine right now due to quality issues with the company. A lot of product launches have issues and that one is no exception. So far, they have done an acceptable job taking care of the problems but ........ what else lurks around the corner? What about the design that requires you to use their special filters and you can not, by design, do proper maint on it? It may be the best thing since sliced bread eventually but it is too new to give it a hearty two thumbs up.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Stuart Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2012 Posts: 113 Location: TX Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: Air Crazy popper
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 7:56am Subject: Re: I take my espressos with milk, considering BES900XL (BDB). Opinons?
Perhaps it's a sign I spend too much time reading this board, but I'd also considered the Rocky Doserless grinder. I have not yet upgraded my equipment, but have been largely swayed by the pro-Baratza reviews. I'm hung up between the Baratza Virtuoso Preciso and the Baratza Vario at this point; one day I think about the pounds of coffee I could buy with the savings with the Preciso, the next day I think about the convenience of the timed dosing from the Vario.
I wish I could speak of my experience with the combination, but not yet. I know there are others on the board who have gone with the BDB/Vario combination: I expect to be.
There is a thread on home-barista comparing the Vario to the Rocky that, I think, is part of what persuaded me:
(Since I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I keep an eye on auction sites for used Mazzer Super Jollys. Which wouldn't offer timed dosing, of course, and might not be as convenient as the smaller units. But they periodically show up for about the price of the Preciso.)
MARIOBARBA Senior Member Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Posts: 126 Location: MONTREAL CANADA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso DUO Prof TRONIC Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012, 9:19am Subject: Re: I take my espressos with milk, considering BES900XL (BDB). Opinons?
I have not owned the BDB but I did start my home espresso journey with a Breville Cafe Roma, it ran for around 5 years without a problem, until I sold it for 100$ (I paid 200$ for it new) and bought a real espresso machine. Although I did not have any problems with my machine I know others have. The machine I had could not be opened up easily to see what lay inside, probably this machine was not meant to be opened or repaired. The BDB is quite a bit more expensive and if I am dropping that much coin on a machine I want to know that it will be easily serviceable in the future. Buying from Amazon or Costco gets you through the first couple of years but then what after that? I expect a 1000$ machine to last me half a lifetime (maybe I am naive in that respect or delusional :)) I am not confident that the BDB is made to do that.
As for the grinder, I have owned both a Preciso and now a Vario. This is because my Preciso broke and it was replaced with a Vario by Baratza. I have opened up both machines (Vario had issues as well) and can say that I expect my Vario to last quite a bit longer than the Preciso would have. Despite my having 3 Baratza grinders (a second Vario was sent to replace the first one and it died right away) that have had issues I can assure you that the company's customer service is second to none. The last time I had an issue, Kyle (the owner and president) himself walked me through fixing my machine myself. Even though I didn't notice a huge difference in grind quality between the two and I personally don't use the Vario to the fullest of its capabilities (I single dose so don't use the timer and only drink espresso so don't switch back a forth between settings at all) I would recommend getting the Vario if only for its better build quality.
I have never used a Rocky but from having done my research when I was in the market for a grinder I gathered that its pros were: good grind quality, solid build, high resale value.
Its main cons would be that the steps are too wide for espresso and its relatively high price (look at a K3 or MC4 for not much more here in Canada)
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