tucker47 Senior Member Joined: 4 Sep 2011 Posts: 7 Location: chicago Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 8:16am Subject: PID for Rancilio Silvia
I have Silvia and have been told that the only way to get the best out of this machine is to install a PID. A couple of questions: Is this true?; What kind or brand of PID is best?; is it/are they hard to install? And where is the best place to get one?; OR is it better to just upgrade to a machine that has on and if so what machine without taking out a 2nd morgage on the house? thanks
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 11:24am Subject: Re: PID for Rancilio Silvia
Not exactly true. You can still get the best out of a silvia by temperature surfing. A pid makes it a lot easier to get the best out of your machine. I bought my pid from Auber ($300cdn or so) Installation is easy . Directions are excellent. The pid is a worth while investment .
Curious. What grinder do you have? If you have a sub par grinder i would invest the money in that and later upgrade to a pid or other machine.
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 1:19pm Subject: Re: PID for Rancilio Silvia
Hi, Paul.
PID Silvia makes some espresso textures that I enjoy very much, like syrup injected with micro air bubbles. Even if I upgrade someday, I might keep Silvia around on the side for the textures she produces. I don't think I could part. =-)
This is good advice:
zedex Said:
If you have a sub par grinder i would invest the money in that and later upgrade to a pid or other machine.
Given that your grinder is already up to the task, yeah, a PID makes Silvia a lot easier to hit your target brew temperature. Pre-PID, I only got occasional good results from Silvia. Temperature surfing is something I would not go back to. With PID, Silvia can definitely knock out some great shots with reasonable consistency. It will help you understand whatever blend or single origin you are using and to hone in on the right temperature for it. Some blends enjoy the typical 200 - 201 degree extraction, but my favorite, Blue Bottle's Roman Espresso, wants to be much cooler temperatures. With the PID, I have an idea what my extraction temp is, and I can pretty consistently get what I am looking for given that my tasting skillz are honed for the day. If Silvia is left on to idle for a long time, just turn the PID down a couple degrees before you walk away because this machine tends to heat up over longer periods of time. During a shot, Silvia can have very good temperature stability (+/- 1 degree F in either direction of the set temp): http://pidkits.com/thermofilter.html
My PID kit made by Jim Gallt, i.e. PLG Properties, was very well thought out with clear instructions. I found the installation to be fun, and I am really not that much of a DIY know-how type of person (yet). The kits just came down a little in price. Perhaps one of the biggest advantages of MPG PIDs are the customer service. 4 years down the road, I still get support from Jim if I need my questions answered, and my PID still works perfectly. You'll find him out here on the boards helping people out quite often. http://pidkits.com/index.php
tucker47 Senior Member Joined: 4 Sep 2011 Posts: 7 Location: chicago Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 2:41pm Subject: Re: PID for Rancilio Silvia
I have a mazzer mini which rocks so the only real variable left is the PID. Thanks for the advice. checked out http://pidkits.com/index.php and the watlow liiks like the top of the line but morethatn half of what I paid for the the Silvia! are there any cheaper options that are worth considering? Thanks again, Paul
sn_85 Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2011 Posts: 131 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Andreja Premium Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 5:45pm Subject: Re: PID for Rancilio Silvia
tucker47 Said:
I have a mazzer mini which rocks so the only real variable left is the PID. Thanks for the advice. checked out http://pidkits.com/index.php and the watlow liiks like the top of the line but morethatn half of what I paid for the the Silvia! are there any cheaper options that are worth considering? Thanks again, Paul
Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012, 5:08am Subject: Re: PID for Rancilio Silvia
A PID kit certainly helped to understand the temperatures at the start of my coffee journey, but these days I do prefer the surfing method as mentioned above. The only part of the PID used now is the thermocouples, so I can read the temperature.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,683 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 12:47pm Subject: Re: PID for Rancilio Silvia
Silvia is a good starter machine but it has a lot of draw backs and temp stability is one of them, as it is on any SBDU machine.
I skipped the whole SBDU thing and went straight to a HX setup a long time ago. I recently changed my setup at work and added a Silvia which I need to rebuild. When the rebuild was complete, I tried to use the machine and the whole temp surfing thing was such a PITA that I installed the Auber brew/steam kit.
I documented the install here http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/559841 It is much easier to use with the addition of the kit and yes I am using a good commercial grinder with her but the shots are only So So at best most of the time, like I said, for a starter machine it is good but higher quality shots are more easy to achieve and are much more consistent from a better machine. The PID takes a large step in the right direction though.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
adan0327 Senior Member Joined: 6 Sep 2011 Posts: 45 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: la cimbali m32 dosatron 3... Grinder: Astoria Super Jolly Vac Pot: hario tc2 Drip: chemex, v60,kalitta... Roaster: Lol.... Pan :D
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 2:32pm Subject: Re: PID for Rancilio Silvia
PID improves shot to shot consistency. It also allows you to forget about temperature surfing. The PID makes temperature control automatic which makes your life much easier. It does not make better shots than stock but instead allows for the initial brew temperature to be the same so you don't have to guess.
Any PID will work. I have used an auber clone from ebay that costed me 25 bucks. The PID is extremely stable and only is maybe 1 degree off sometimes. It never overshoots.
A cheap DIY kit would cost you less than 50 dollars for a single PID set up. Auber clone: $25 25 amp SSR: $5 t type bolt on thermocouple $3-7 Enclosure: be creative maybe find a nice box around your house (you can cut panels with a dremel) .
Here's my dual boiler 2 PID + digital timer set up.
Depends on what you mean by temp stability. If you are steaming milk, yes brew temperature is a problem on a SBDU from having to raise the boiler to steam temps. But for espresso only, there are E61 SBDU machines that keep up with their E61 HX and double boiler counterparts. After all, they have the same group head that circulates the boiler water. Silvia has a smallish boiler and is known to have a wandering group head temperature. But E61 SBDU machines tend to have larger brew boilers that compare nicely with, for instance, the Alex Duetto double boiler.
Brew boiler sizes: Alex Duetto (DB): 800 ml Silvia (SBDU): 330 ml Isomac Zaffiro (SBDU): 800 ml Quickmill Alexia (SBDU): 750 ml
Mark Prince's article on the outstanding temp stability of the Zaffiro: Click Here (coffeegeek.com)
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