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Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

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michaelgo
Senior Member

Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 90
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 900XL
Grinder: Baratza Vario

Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012, 7:18pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

I had the same overfill problem and was always leveling over a spill bucket, this works much better. And I've gotten the dose just right with the SG. I've been pulling with the manual button but for giggles the other day hit the 2 cup botton which pulled just 18g. I'm going to reset that (got to pull out the manual) but will probably just stick with pushing Manual to start and stop assuming my timing is right.

BubbaDude
Senior Member

Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 493
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB

Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012, 7:28pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

michaelgo Said: I had the same overfill problem and was always leveling over a spill bucket, this works much better. And I've gotten the dose just right with the SG. I've been pulling with the manual button but for giggles the other day hit the 2 cup botton which pulled just 18g. I'm going to reset that (got to pull out the manual) but will probably just stick with pushing Manual to start and stop assuming my timing is right. Posted March 1, 2012 link The volumes don't respond to the reset, you have to re-program them individually. Just select "2 cup" from the menu and then press the 2 cup button to start the flow and press it again when you've hit your target. You'll want to do that into a measuring class. Back to the VSTs, do you guys get different results with their 18g basket over the stock one? The only VST I have is a 22g, which works great for triple ristrettos but isn't much good for much else. I can see getting a 20g for versatility, but I'm having a hard time convincing myself that there's anything to be gained from the 18g VST over the stock 18g basket. My pucks don't stick any more for some mysterious reason. BTW, seemed like it took about a week to get a VST basket, and the USPS tracking system isn't very helpful.

"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince

dagoat
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 292
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: BDB (Breville Dual Boiler...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto

Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012, 7:46pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

so, why again are we getting vst baskets? -Peter

Metatron
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Nov 2011
Posts: 46
Location: Calgary, Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: BDB900
Grinder: Vario

Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012, 9:06pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

dagoat Said:

so, why again are we getting vst baskets?

Posted March 1, 2012 link

I think the main advantage of the VST baskets is they have straight sides. You can tamp properly even if you don't have enough coffee in the PF. I find with the Breville baskets that the tamper sometimes comes up against the sloped sides. Also, with the straight sides you are less likely to leave the puck on the group when you remove the PF.

I believe I saw a note from Phil on CoffeeSnobs saying Breville was changing the basket style to have straight sides much like the VST. I think it will be available in a few months. Could be wrong though. Other than the sloped sides, the Breville basket is very good.

I find one tends to collect all sort of trivits when using these machines. I have acquired several Orphan Espresso funnels, different colors of course, 3 VST baskets, thermometers, cups of all sorts, dedicated fancy cloths for wiping the steam wand, grinder brushes, etc, etc. Not to mention my coffee budget is approaching $200 per month. I am now looking at a second grinder. Can't decide between a Vario W or a ProM. Turns out the BDB will probably be the smallest part of my annual coffee budget. Oh for the days when mail order really meant mail order and there was none of this instant gratification.

swimjay
Senior Member

Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Berkeley, CA 94708
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Orphan...

Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012, 11:30pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Bubbadude asked: Back to the VSTs, do you guys get different results with their 18g basket over the stock one? The only VST I have is a 22g, which works great for triple ristrettos but isn't much good for much else. I can see getting a 20g for versatility, but I'm having a hard time convincing myself that there's anything to be gained from the 18g VST over the stock 18g basket. My pucks don't stick any more for some mysterious reason. Here's what I noticed, switching from the standard Breville 18g basket to the VST 18 g: A shot takes 3 to 5 or 6 seconds longer before blonding, and yields 3 to 5 more grams, roughly. Blonding is now less abrupt, more gradual when it does happen. Flavors are deeper, richer, less woody, just basically more satisfying. I think the VST is allowing for more even, and thus more thorough, extraction. With the Breville basket, I think some of the coffee was getting over-extracted while some of rest of the grind was still under-extracted. If you've got a really good sense of smell, which I rarely do, take a spent basket and with the very tip of a sharp knife lift up different regions of the puck and smell them. If you find that some regions are quite aromatic, and others not, I think that means that the aromatic regions have not been completely extracted. One thing you may notice is that you'll need to grind finer with the VST basket, which is a good thing, more coffee surface area. This is because the back pressure is being created more by the coffee and less by the basket. Prior to switching, I wasn't really loving the Breville, and actually sometimes preferred the shots my Mypressi would give. Now the Breville is clearly better than the Mypressi (which, for the price, is a great tool). Also it was very hard to get everything dialed in--maximum pressure equal to nine bars, more or less held throughout the shot, shot timing 22 to 29 seconds not counting preinfusion, shot volume 24 to 34 milliliters. I now think the Breville is great, and I still haven't really played much with varying the temperature. My problem is I can only absorb so much caffeine on a given day, and find that it gets into me even if after tasting it, I spit most of the shot out. I think it goes right through membranes of the walls of my mouth. How are the flavors with the 22g basket? That might be a useful basket when you want to pour two shots at once.

BubbaDude
Senior Member

Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 12:08am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

swimjay Said: How are the flavors with the 22g basket? That might be a useful basket when you want to pour two shots at once. Posted March 1, 2012 link The best shots I've got so far are Rwandan ristrettos from the 22er, but I got a magic shot today with the stock 18er and some 7 day old El Salvador Molino de Santa Rita at FC. This bean is meant to be the base for a blend, but it's nice on its own, sweet and chocolatey. While I'm waiting for the 18g VST, I'll try some 22g normales and see how that works out.

"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince

Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 12:11am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Meta, I do not have a problem with either the puck sticking, OR the tamper hitting the sides. The way I solved it is by dosing the exact amount that the Breville basket "likes". Something that is very easily done by weighing out your dose. This I think is the nature of baskets of this design. in order to get those sweet, spent-puck "knockout" characteristics, you have to pay the price of careful dosing--not too much and not too little--easily accomplished by weighing. I'm perfectly happy with that. makes me consistent, and methodical in my note taking. swimjay, to what do you attribute the unevenness in the extracted mass of the puck? the Breville basket has nearly perfect hole size, roundness, and distribution. if the the VSTs are even better still, it has to be by minute margins. -peter

JohnLyn
Senior Member

Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 228
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper

Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 9:02am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

shawngt2 Said:

Do you guys know how long it took to get your VST baskets? I did via USPS and it's a week now waiting at sorting facility. Got the 18 & 22g sizes. But then again I live in Canada.

Posted March 1, 2012 link

Click Here (www.49thparallelroasters.com)

This is the place to go to. Great roaster out of Vancouver. I live in a rural community and I had my baskets within a week.

swimjay
Senior Member

Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Berkeley, CA 94708
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Orphan...

Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 11:49am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Meta, swimjay, to what do you attribute the unevenness in the extracted mass of the puck? the Breville basket has nearly perfect hole size, roundness, and distribution. if the the VSTs are even better still, it has to be by minute margins. -peter Not sure, Peter. I do think it would be hard for us to establish that "the Breville basket has nearly perfect hole size, roundness, and distribution," without some kind of very accurate measuring devices, like the one VST uses. I agree with you that the Breville looks, to my eye, quite good, but at least in my machine, with my Breville baskets (I wound up with two, after the OPV correction exchange), the VST is better, and not by a small margin. If I had to guess what was going on, and it would be only a guess, it might have something to do with the greater open area of the VST, and the fact that open area is directly below the entry surface of the water--there's very little taper. So the exit surface area is more equal to the entry surface area, and the back pressure is more uniform throughout the puck. But that's just speculation on my part. It would be interesting if someone could run some measurements using the VST scanners on other commonly available baskets and publish the results. It would probably be hard for VST themselves to do, as it would seem self-serving.

jlib
Senior Member

Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Carmel Valley, California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: BES900XL Double Boiler
Grinder: BCG800 Smart Grinder

Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 3:11pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Phill McKnight posted some micro-photos of the Breville basket (I can't remember where now) that showed a very consistent hole quality compared to other well known brands. I like the VST for the following reasons: I can grind 18 grams directly into the portafilter without a tendency to overflow before tamping. I never get screen imprints and stuck pucks. I can use a slightly finer grind without having the flow stop dead in its tracks. The finer grind gets me the kind of shot I crave, light on the crema but heavy on the syrupy consistency (admittedly not everyone's cup of coffee but my favorite). With the Breville basket, one click difference in the grind could create a mediocre shot. The VST seems more forgiving. Maybe because it is already using finer grind and the adjustments may not be perfectly linear. In other words, a single click at the finer range of the grinder seems to have less of an effect than one click at a more medium grind.

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