azerik Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2009 Posts: 278 Location: tempe Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulser, Cuisenart... Grinder: Compak K6 Drip: Hario Pour over Roaster: Bemhor
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2012, 3:37pm Subject: Starting up the road to DB.. again
I've had a long and loving relationship with my Expobar Pulser and there's always been something that just kinda gets me with this machine. Usually it's timing the pull or trying to time the pull with steaming milk. Once my wife was confirmed pregnant she switched to decaff 8oz lattes in the morning and I kept my 'normal' routine of 2 doubles for an iced latte or possibly, if below 45 degrees outside a quad, big gulp 20 oz latte for myself. I have a Compak K6 which thankfully is a Silencio so it wont wake the baby, so I can hope :), in about 3 months. The grinder has never let me down and swaps from caff to decaff and back with minimal left overs and sweeping. I alo roast my own, all of it, except for 3 bags of heaven from Stump, Klatch and Intelli.
Problem I have is consistency and the estimate of how much I flushed and where it actually sits temp wise. I was in the process of poor man temp probing it via 2 'meat timers' that just didn't react fast enough and putting a pid on a HX is pretty useless for the money. what I think I would like to do is move up to a DB, preferably something with a dial a temp control like a S1. The pre-infusion is a must for me so the mini is out I think. I have no problem with it taking up as much room as I need as I'll be moving it off to a cart shortly anyway. Back when I bought my Expobar I was also eyeing a Vivaldi S1. But alas the Expobar won out in the field as I didn't think I needed a DB. I suppose I still don't actually NEED a DB but would like one. I've been looking at a V1 S1 but can't find any real info on it. I'm looking used as well and there is a V1 S1 for less than $1400. I'm trying to pin down if it's worth another $800 to get a new one from ChrisCoffee or the likes and if the S1 really is for me. I like the fact it's 'pid'd' but I could have swore there was a shop selling a bunch of pid'd machines. I don't want a Silvia or the likes as I do like to steam and pull at the same time. I just with the brew temp was something I controlled now.
I am plumbed in and out and on soft water with a $5k Kenetico so water is no issue. I am kind of limited to 15 amps currently as running a drop to that outlet would require punching the outside wall as well.
I'm looking for some ideas on 'cheaper' DB's. I'd LOVE a Gs3 but that won't happen unless I sell a Panerai or 2 (which is something else I REALLY have a hard time giving up). I really like the storage space on the Expobar as I have 4 10oz 'art' cups, 6 7 oz latte cups, 2 double 'spro cups and 3 5 oz cappa cups stacked on top. I can move these if need be. I'm not a huge fan of the Brewtus/ Vibbeeme (spellcheck!)Domobar style machines though. Maybe I just need to use one to see, the fact I can see what's going on without ducking under the front of the machine like I have to with the Expo as well.
I'd like to find something in the $1000 to $1500 range as I still can't convince myself to get a GS3 for what I do. Idea's pointers?
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2012, 5:01pm Subject: Re: Starting up the road to DB.. again
posted from my phone so please excuse the numbers for words that is the way this voice recognition software does it sorry
you know there's a big difference between want and need and I can certainly understand the want part!
some people are better suited to double boilers and some people like to work with a heat exchanger. neither 1 is better than the other but 1 or the other is a better fit for you.
4 example me, I can crank out shot after shot no problem and get exactly what I want from a he exchanger. in the quality of the shot moving to a double boiler is the side step not a step up. however if you really work better with a double boiler by all means by 1, there is no shame in that LOL
I am sure someone here will be able to help you out with the lower cost double boiler machine but because my interest does not lie with them others here can help you much better than I can
oh and as to the want versus need, I needed a new shop vac to pick up some drywall dust and I went into the store looking for a middle range vacuum but sitting in my car is the top of the line 1 that is the difference between want and need l o l
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Mar 19, 2012, 5:32pm Subject: Re: Starting up the road to DB.. again
Wayne, I disagree completely, that is with shop vacs for dry wall dust, lol. What is needed for that fine dust is a vac with an easy to bang out filter since they will clog so easy or a vac that is designed for drywall dust, Porter Cable has one that I used for a sander wand with a pre filter that was easy to bang out and a bag to contain the bulk. For clean up jobs I really like the mini Dewalt vac that runs on batteries or AC and having an extra filter to swap out when it clogs, the filters are easy to bang out and are washable though they need time to dry.
Sorry, back on topic, I agree 100% with Wayne and I prefer the on the fly ease of HX.
azerik Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2009 Posts: 278 Location: tempe Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulser, Cuisenart... Grinder: Compak K6 Drip: Hario Pour over Roaster: Bemhor
Posted Tue Mar 20, 2012, 1:46pm Subject: Re: Starting up the road to DB.. again
]That's why I was looking for a PID type DB like the S1. My wife has this uncanny ability to walk up, ask, interrupt, question, show, and yelp at exactly the right time to mess up what I have going on. She's usually making kasha for breakfast and trying to ask me what color paint I like while I grind dose flush WTD tamp clear the steam mount the pf in the bottomless pf and start to steam, time, then pull. It's quite possible that once the little one is here her time will be fully wrapped up in that and will allow me back into what i refer to as 'Timing Games' She doesn't realize that interrupting me for 15 seconds just ran the shot temp too high so I have to flush and retime.
And on the subject of drywall dust I used my Royal upright with the bag. Worked like a charm (not the Royal with the water tank, I can only imagine the mess that becomes when the drywall becomes mud again. I used a Porter Cable 7424 or 2474 or 2424 can't remember to 'cut the drywall in my daughters room as the construction guy that textured that room forgot to knock it down. Click Here (sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Mar 20, 2012, 4:13pm Subject: Re: Starting up the road to DB.. again
I can relate to the wife asking for something at the wrong time. my pstat is set to about 1.1bar not the higher 1.4 that a lot of machine machines are set to so twenty or so seconds really does not have a huge affect with the 2.5l boiler. or perhaps i am not so sensitive to the taste that a few seconds either way makes.
If you want a db machine to ease this situation i can see an advantage to it though i just live with the slight difference in the espresso taste.
I also do not have the large routine that you do, I have a full automatic espresso machine and an automatic grinder for the beans. I do not bother with w d t as the grinder doses into the basket so all I do is level off the top to even the surface, then tamp in my press point tamper. so my set up routine is pretty no muss no fuss. just push the portafilter into the grinder then let it grind and dose into the basket. level off and even the grounds then tamp. flush the group head until the steam stop and give it about another ounce of water then lock and pull. Done.
Back to the vac, i also bought the micro fine liner bag to prevent the situation of a clogged filter. Though i have only started the work, the liner bag is doing exactly what the sales copy printed on it says it should do in keeping the main filter clean. the liner presents a very large surface to the vacuum so it will take longer to clog up and when it does i can just tap on it to clear it as there are no pleats to clog. i am a big believer in pre filters. i have them on my bobcat and it is amazing what it traps before the main filter.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Based on what your stated requirements are, I believe you made a good choice. I have La Spaz Mini S1 and couldn't be happier. It is totally consistant in its output. I think you will really like the steaming ability of the machine. I sure do.
ps- Check your breaker box. A lot of kitchen circuit breakers are 20 amp. Mine are and I changed the wall plug so I can run at 20 amps allowing both boilers to run at the same time. I have run at 15 amps and really didn't see much difference. I am careful to not run the Spaz, microwave, toaster grinder, drip pot, etc. at the same time. LOL. I do occacionally run several items at once but really have no problems. YMMV
azerik Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2009 Posts: 278 Location: tempe Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulser, Cuisenart... Grinder: Compak K6 Drip: Hario Pour over Roaster: Bemhor
Posted Thu Mar 29, 2012, 3:42pm Subject: Re: Starting up the road to DB.. again
Thanks! I had thought about trying to get the grinder on another circuit, I'm actually in need of replacing the outlet anyway as I have a 20amp X10 controller on there now for automating the Expobar. My thought being that if i can get the Spaz on it's own line I can set to 20amp. My wife usually runs the microwave while I grind and pull so I'm not sure how well any of this will work out of the box. I'm going to have to explain why the machine is on 24x7 or why I'm changing the automation routine as the X10 cuts total power to the outlet thus dropping the memory as well i would think. I have a S1 V1.5 on the way as I really wanted a rotary upgrade from the vibe pumps. Daughter is due in 2 months so moving to a quieter set up :) Yeah umm that's why... hehe
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