The CC1 manual says the 201 is the boiler/brew temperature, and the PID keeps it within 1 degree of where I have it set. I have not tried measuring the water as it comes out (is that worth doing?). The timer I referred to was the wall timer to bring the machine on an hour ahead of time, and then the PID keeps the temp in line.
I thought the 30-60 minute warmup would be enough, but I find my second shots better than the first which is why I'm wondering if that's due to inconsistencies or if flushing before my first shot is worth while? It gets back up to temp rather quickly.
This is a good example of letting taste be your guide. If the second shot tastes better then before prepping your shot give the cc1 a flush, it should be stable again by the time you get prepped. This will allow the machine to cool or heat the brew water and flush out any water that may have been picking up any off tastes sitting in the lines.
The CC1 manual says the 201 is the boiler/brew temperature, and the PID keeps it within 1 degree of where I have it set. I have not tried measuring the water as it comes out (is that worth doing?). The timer I referred to was the wall timer to bring the machine on an hour ahead of time, and then the PID keeps the temp in line.
Okay, once again, I am not familiar with the CC1, but the many people I have heard from who have installed PIDs on their Gaggias have indicated that the "boiler temp" and the "brew temp" are related but not the same. As I stated above, if I set my PID for 220 or thereabouts, I get a brew temp closer to 200. If I were to set my PID at 201, I would get swill in the cup. (Some people make adjustments to their PID's so that the readout indicates the adjustment between theactual boiler temp and the discrepancy they have calculated so that their assumed brew temp is displayed, but that is another subject. On the other hand, maybe the CC1 is designed that way..???)
As to flushes? My PID'd Gaggia does not need a flush. That is my answer to "all machines need....". Beyond that I am not even slightly interested in pursuing this line of argument/discussion.
And thereupon she took her leave of the thread ...
How wonderful for you! You have the ultra rare unicorn of a machine! Congrats, keep it an use it in good health! Don't ever consider upgrading though, you won't find another one, well not in a home market machine anyway!
I have used and have owned (though not all that I have used have I owned) from steam toys to 4 gp, PID commercial double boilers and they all have need to either be warmed or cooled a little. As said above, perhaps with an actively heated GH, you might find one that won't gain anything but I have not used one of those so there is still more to look forward to and to learn about. It is a truly rare machine indeed that does not require a flush from a long time standing idle. I would love to have one but I have a feeling I don't have the $$$$$ it would take.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
The CC1 manual says the 201 is the boiler/brew temperature, and the PID keeps it within 1 degree of where I have it set. I have not tried measuring the water as it comes out (is that worth doing?). The timer I referred to was the wall timer to bring the machine on an hour ahead of time, and then the PID keeps the temp in line.
I thought the 30-60 minute warmup would be enough, but I find my second shots better than the first which is why I'm wondering if that's due to inconsistencies or if flushing before my first shot is worth while? It gets back up to temp rather quickly.
A PID of any type does not "know" what temperature it is reading, what you're seeing is a computed estimate of temperature based on a voltage input. It may say 201, but as SJM noted, that could actually be an incorrect figure. This is why the devices must be calibrated at the start to calculate an offset. In the case of the CC1, it may be calibrated at the factory, but perhaps it was done so incorrectly, or the unit reset, and your readings are off. Performing the styrofoam cup test is an alright metric for getting a ballpark figure, but it is not the most precise way of testing. Still, if you've got a thermocouple and a cup, it might be worth a shot - I personally think bimetal probe thermometers are too slow and unreliable for this purpose. Hopefully you can reprogram the offset, so you can still work with figures relevant to you (as opposed to SJM's 221-201 conversion), and let the machine do the math.
After testing the CC1 for a couple of weeks by taste alone and then with a Scace I can tell you I would raise the brew temp by 10 or 12 degrees and see if I liked it better. I agree with SJM the brew temp needs to go up the whole Flush debate notwithstanding. I don't want say more than that until the results of the roadshow are edited and made public.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
Who would have thought things could get so testy on this thread.
I look forward to reading more about the CC1. I think there is a large untapped market for the -500$ machines that the kick start over funding of the Nocturn I just read about, reflects. And I think the innovation will come from the new kids on the thermoblock and not the heavy weights. (I think I am punny)
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
There are some machines with PIDs that have a setting for "offset." This is a differential setting that becomes the difference between the boiler's temperature and the display temperature. For example, if you program in a 20 degree offset and program the setpoint for 200, the actual boiler temperature will be 220 (200 setpoint + 20 offset = 220). The Brevile 900 as well as the Vibiemme Domomar Double each have a setting for offset, and the CC1 as well (although there are others).
This does not change how the system works, it merely allows the user to have a displayed temperature that is their preferred brewing temperature and alleviates the need to explain to visitors that, no, I am not brewing with 220 degree water.
The first responder stated that the user should add 20 degrees to the PID's brew temp setting, evidently not knowing that +20 degrees is already programmed into the CC1's factory offset temperature. So if the OP followed that advice, the brew temperature would be set for 241 (201 display + 20 more recommended + offset of 20 = 241). That's hot. It is why it is best not to offer advice about such things without knowing the machine, and in the same way, not blindly following advice found on the Internet.
Crossland CC1's boiler doesn't sit directly over the group so the group, for me at least, never got super hot (my QM Silvano group will take burn you after an hour warm up) to the touch even after a couple hours.
To the OP: I think the PID offset needs to be raised if the shots do not seem hot enough. I had this problem too so I called Bill Crossland and he helped me reset the PID offset and the results definitely improved in the cup.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
I think the issue is that the group needs to warm up a little because the op said that the second shot is better than the first ,indicating that the first one was a little cool and it warmed up for the second . if you bump up the pid then the first shot will likely be helped but the second one would then be too hot .
Just a guess . good luck
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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