Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 12:02pm Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
cappuccinoboy Said:
Bill you should know that TAIWAN, R.O.C. stands for Taiwan, Republic of China and that Made in China has always meant Made in Taiwan, the other China boasts Made in P.R.C. (People's Republic of China), of course time changes, ciao, Pietro
In my experience, in the USA, if an item is made in Taiwan, it says, "Made in Taiwan." If it is made in the People's Republic of China (PRC - 'Communist China'), it says, "Made in China."
cappuccinoboy Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Posts: 789 Location: MILANO Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully... Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 1:08pm Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
frcn Said:
In my experience, in the USA, if an item is made in Taiwan, it says, "Made in Taiwan." If it is made in the People's Republic of China (PRC - 'Communist China'), it says, "Made in China."
Randy I will not argue with you about possible present-future trends, but you are wrong , also if you think of it "made in China" has been around for a long time and if you think back it could only have been made in Taiwan, R.O.C., because PRC is a much younger industrial reality, I suggest you look for Made in PRC because packaging is supposedly the same for Europe and USA Ciao, Pietro
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 1:55pm Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
cappuccinoboy Said:
Randy I will not argue with you about possible present-future trends, but you are wrong , also if you think of it "made in China" has been around for a long time and if you think back it could only have been made in Taiwan, R.O.C., because PRC is a much younger industrial reality, I suggest you look for Made in PRC because packaging is supposedly the same for Europe and USA Ciao, Pietro
yiplong Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2012 Posts: 79 Location: EU Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 3:32pm Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
Given that the CC1 has a separate steam block for steam, I am not sure why it didn't make it independent like the Silvano so the user can steam/brew at the same time. Perhaps this was done to cut down on cost?
OT: I believe cappuccinoboy was simply saying, while Made in China means made in Mainland China today, it used to mean made in Taiwan (ROC). Some reading comprehension will do you good.
Frank, you are the one making absolute statements, in fact nowadays Made in China is confusing; ref Foxconn factories in Shenzen I wouldn't be in the least surpised if Foxconn was a Taiwanese investement since Taiwan is a very big investor in mainland China......(communist pragmatism...) Ciao, Pietro
yiplong Said:
Given that the CC1 has a separate steam block for steam, I am not sure why it didn't make it independent like the Silvano so the user can steam/brew at the same time. Perhaps this was done to cut down on cost?
OT: I believe cappuccinoboy was simply saying, while Made in China means made in Mainland China today, it used to mean made in Taiwan (ROC). Some reading comprehension will do you good.
Hey, Bubble Gum (?), thank you for the "reading comprhension" Ref separate steam block, there are two possibilities : you make totally independent and feed cold water with a micro pump : and you can use at same time as brewing, but you have limescale problems and need higher wattage to steam group, or you can make separate feeding hot water from main boiler to separate steam group, in this second instance you need a solenoid valve, a pulser for pump and you can steam immediately as you finish brewing : advantage no waiting time and no limescale in steam group, independent may prove cheaper than just separate and I personally consider the separate solution as superior Ciao, Pietro
yiplong Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2012 Posts: 79 Location: EU Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sat Apr 7, 2012, 5:38am Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
Speaking of Hon Hai Precision Industry, it is in fact a Taiwanese company (trade name = Foxconn). They built stuff in Taiwan until the early 1990 when most manufacturing base were move to the Mainland.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sat Apr 7, 2012, 10:11am Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
Pietro, I know better than to argue with you, but based upon my own personal experience with the Taiwan (anyone remember Formosa?) versus mainland China manufacturing, I would have to side with Randy . . .
Back in the 1950s, it IS true that -- here in the United States -- a label reading "Made in China" was synonymous with "Made in Taiwan." However, pretty much since Nixon went to China, "Made in China" has equalled "Made in the People's Republic of China" (PRC), and products which were made on the island nation of Taiwan are labeled "Made in Taiwan." Given the political sensitivities involved, not even Taiwanese products are currently labeled "Made in China" -- it's too inflammatory for the powers that be in Beijing! They won't even use the label "Made in R.O.C." anymore.
YMMV, as may that of the EU -- but here in the U.S. . . . .
Posted Sat Apr 7, 2012, 1:59pm Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
cappuccinoboy Said:
Frank, you are the one making absolute statements, in fact nowadays Made in China is confusing; ref Foxconn factories in Shenzen I wouldn't be in the least surpised if Foxconn was a Taiwanese investement since Taiwan is a very big investor in mainland China......(communist pragmatism...) Ciao, Pietro
my only absolute statement was the example i brought up. foxconn is a taiwan company, that doesnt mean that the items were made there. crossland is an american company as is apple. that doesnt mean that they're made in america.
but like jason brought up, i'm only speaking about the my experience in the U.S.
cappuccinoboy Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Posts: 789 Location: MILANO Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully... Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Sun Apr 8, 2012, 2:27am Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
Pietro, I know better than to argue with you, but based upon my own personal experience with the Taiwan (anyone remember Formosa?) versus mainland China manufacturing, I would have to side with Randy . . .
Back in the 1950s, it IS true that -- here in the United States -- a label reading "Made in China" was synonymous with "Made in Taiwan." However, pretty much since Nixon went to China, "Made in China" has equalled "Made in the People's Republic of China" (PRC), and products which were made on the island nation of Taiwan are labeled "Made in Taiwan." Given the political sensitivities involved, not even Taiwanese products are currently labeled "Made in China" -- it's too inflammatory for the powers that be in Beijing! They won't even use the label "Made in R.O.C." anymore.
YMMV, as may that of the EU -- but here in the U.S. . . . .
Jason, beeing older that you I do remember Formosa... Nixon visited China in 1972, I was in Taipei in 1986 and did not have feeling that anything had changed, but am aware that it was almost 30 years ago, so when I say that Made in China is confusing I refer to the fact that I see more Made in PRC than made in China, I never saw a Made in Taiwan, and... also refer to the fact that Beijing insist that Taiwan is a province of China and that there is only one China......and that they go for peacefull reunification, although not dismissing use of force......, but that is beyond our best wishes, .... it is always a pleasure to exchange words with you Ciao, Pietro
GlennT Senior Member Joined: 13 Feb 2012 Posts: 38 Location: SF Bay Area (Silicon Valley) Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Kraps Il Primo Steam Wanabe... Grinder: Baratza Priciso Drip: Aeropress & "Don't ask don't...
Posted Sun Apr 8, 2012, 2:04pm Subject: Re: The Crossland CC1 Machine - CG Road Trip!! (Looking for a few good geeks)
yiplong Said:
Given that the CC1 has a separate steam block for steam, I am not sure why it didn't make it independent like the Silvano so the user can steam/brew at the same time. Perhaps this was done to cut down on cost?
EVERYTHING on the machine is a trade-off between cost, performance, power requirements and quality. It's MUCH harder to design a build a quality machine for $700 than a kick-ass machine for $2,000, especially if the $2,000 machine runs on 220V.
Water has a lot of thermal mass. Using water out of the boiler has some advantages:
The heater on the steam block can be a fraction of the size when flashing hot water than room temperature water. This is both a cost and a power budget issue.
The time required to get the steam block up to temperature is much less when flashing hot water.
Makeup water has to flow into the boiler to replace the water used to make the espresso and steam. By limiting operations to one at a time, the boiler heater can be sized a bit smaller so that it has time to reheat the water. This is a power and performance (time between multiple shots) issue.
Obviously, the steam block allows the boiler to remain at constant temperature rather than heating and cooling based on steam or hot water demands.
BTW, the CC1 is NOT a $500 machine. It's a $700 machine, putting in the same price range as the Silvia. Click Here (www.seattlecoffeegear.com)
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