adan0327 Senior Member Joined: 6 Sep 2011 Posts: 45 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: la cimbali m32 dosatron 3... Grinder: Astoria Super Jolly Vac Pot: hario tc2 Drip: chemex, v60,kalitta... Roaster: Lol.... Pan :D
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 5:52pm Subject: Should I sell my dual boiler PID and rossi rr45 for a 2 group la cimbali hx?
Hi,
Last week I brought my prosumer dual boiler PID modded (2 pids kitchen aid pro) to my uncle's party with my super jolly, and we got started getting into talking about espresso. Basically he owns a breville cafe roma (thermoblock crap). I showed him what a good machine and grinder could produce and he wanted me to set him up with good equipment. Right now I'm thinking of selling him my kitchen aid db with my rossi45 for 850 so that I can buy a 2 group la cimbali hx that is on craigslist right now for 800. Technically my DB isnt commercial but it still is not too bad. Should I help my uncle get started in exchange for a commercial hx or just keep what I have for now? I don't use my rossi45 too often(drip,frenchpress,etc). Actually I bought a hario skerton just in case I should need to sell it.
Basically for me I'm wondering should I try to learn on on HX or keep using PIDs? I know that HXs you need to cool down the initial water b/c its too hot but is it really that much of a hassle? Thoughts anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulWBnDdo4k8
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,671 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 8:32pm Subject: Re: Should I sell my dual boiler PID and rossi rr45 for a 2 group la cimbali hx?
In short, it really is what do you want to do? If you have the room and the power and water hook ups, me, personally I would do it in a heart beat. HX really .... REALLY is not a big deal to get used to !!! Nearly every machine requires a flush, either to warm up a little or cool down a little and they ALL need a flush to clear spent grounds from the group head.
You will find that a commercial machine is a rock solid performer temp wise and I do have 3 commercial HX machines at the moment, one two group and two single groups. I also have several commercial grinders so, I guess you can see, there are just a few things going on at my coffee bar.
I am going to guess that the two group is automatic, plumb in, both are features that I HIGHLY advise getting if you can, the volumetric dosing makes adjusting the grinder a snap. There is no guessing how much coffee has been pulled, the crema does not throw you off, there is no need for a scale under your cup to find out just how much coffee has gone through your puck.
I am sure you know that anything bought used can be a crap shoot as to past care and current condition. Let the machine get hot, put it through its paces, take the top off and most commercial machines are made so that the sides can come off for easy service, look everywhere and use every edge you can to get a better price.
While the RR45 is a solid performing grinder, you will be fine with just the SJ, it is more than able to keep up with any crowd you might have over!
To recap, the HX flush is much more of a thing to talk about than it is to do it, it will be second nature very quickly, if that is your main worry, you will be fine.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,671 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 8:57pm Subject: Re: Should I sell my dual boiler PID and rossi rr45 for a 2 group la cimbali hx?
I watched your video and just a few comments about it. You really should weigh your beans, the only way to be consistent is to have the same amount every time and for that you need better control than just two scoops. You like to play with electronics, clearly, a big improvement you can make to the SJ is to run it with a timer and a bean hopper. With a constant pressure of beans in the hopper, a timer will turn out the same volume of grounds, over and over again without any issues, this is a mod well worth the time it takes to do. I used a darkroom timer to control a pair of relays (I ran two SJs at the same time) and I had 1/10 second timers. This resulted in a very easy to duplicate dose of coffee that was very easily changed. Just weigh the Pf and zero out the scale, grind for the set time and adjust more or less time to get the weight you want.
Next, pulling the shot by time is not the same as by volume of water, if you have just a little extra coffee in the basket or grind a little too fine, you will not get enough water through the coffee to brew properly, and the other end is true too, a light dose of coffee or too coarse and you will get too much water.
Volumetric dosing gives you the same water every time, if the shot ends too fast, grind finer, if it takes too long grind more coarse as your dose of coffee is the same every time and the water is the same every time the timing of the shot will tell you instantly about how you are doing.
I am guessing it was for the video but you let your shot sit WAY WAY too long! The crema was gone by the time you added the milk and there was not much more than an oil slick left on the coffee.
You will need to get better pitcher too, the straight sided ones with a spout are best, you do not get great mixing action in a bell shaped pitcher even if it does have a spout.
If you get the commercial machine, you will realize just how LITTLE steam power you have with the KADB!
All in all though, you are likely enjoying better coffee than the vast majority of people out there, just because I had a few constructive comments you should not feel like I am putting you down, I am not, you are off to a very very good start!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
adan0327 Senior Member Joined: 6 Sep 2011 Posts: 45 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: la cimbali m32 dosatron 3... Grinder: Astoria Super Jolly Vac Pot: hario tc2 Drip: chemex, v60,kalitta... Roaster: Lol.... Pan :D
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:27pm Subject: Re: Should I sell my dual boiler PID and rossi rr45 for a 2 group la cimbali hx?
Yea I was definitely going to do the digital timer mod to my grinder just haven't gotten to that yet. I actually wanted to get my grinder soda blasted first. BTW since that video I have gotten a espro toroid pitcher. The beans I used weren't the freshest either. I ran out of my regular weekly social roast so I just happened to have some old red bird laying around. In general though I do use my scales for single dosing. I just wanted to keep the video short and to the point. I am planning to get the HX I just have to figure out how to plumb it and what kind of step up transformer (with the correct wattage of course)I need to run the 220v machine if I need to do so. I think its about time I get a real workhorse :)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,671 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 8:00pm Subject: Re: Should I sell my dual boiler PID and rossi rr45 for a 2 group la cimbali hx?
A transformer is not going to work for you. You need to have a 220 line run from the breaker box to your machine. For you to get 20 amps of 220v you are going to need over 40 amps of 110 due to efficency losses. You do not have enough power from a standard 20 amp line to convert up for your machine.
It really does not cost a lot to have a line run though and it is well worth it for the reduced issues you will have.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
If I had a commercial DB -- or a high(er) end prosumer DB like, for example, a GS/3, or even something like an Alex Duetto -- I might not switch. But if I had a KADB? Yeah, in a heart beat!
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