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Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Seeking advice...  
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ocarolina
Senior Member
ocarolina
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 59
Location: chicago suburbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio silvia 3
Grinder: baratza preciso
Drip: french press - no drip
Roaster: behmor / iroast2
Posted Sat Apr 14, 2012, 5:30pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

]My silvia is a version 3, I have a preciso grinder, and roast all my beans fresh with a Behmor roaster....

Having said that, I am no coffee snob, and do not judge those people that choose convenience over any other feature.  We all did not start drinking coffee from $4000 machines and roasting our own beans.  We all have had some humble beginnings drinking coffee as we have grown up - from what our parents had to what we drink now.   I too, had the superautomatic machine that you all so adamantly would never recommend, and used  the freshest roasted beans that were ground and brewed with the push of a button.  I have had it for 11 years, it is made of plastic, and my hubby has replaced the heater once, and the seals once - in 11 years that is very little in repairs.  My husband still enjoys using this convenient machine today.  This is my old machine, and is still working...
Click Here (www.e-importz.com)
Although my tastes have escalated to making better coffee (having just spent over $1500 on new eqmt in February), I never thought to make anyone feel bad about wanting a fast and easy way to have their coffee.  I guess whatever you like to drink, and it makes you happy to drink it - is good enough for me.

And for the people who place a premium on the convenience of getting something in the cup, rather than placing the premium on the quality of what is in the cup, there are a wide variety of super-autos out there for people to use -- both at the home or office, and in commercial environments like *$.But as Wayne said, "that is not what we as a community place high on the list, or even ON a list."

I fully understand that this forum is coffeegeek, and that it is for coffee enthusiasts, but drinking coffee includes people from all ends of the spectrum - from home enthusiast to professional barista.  Obviously, I would never use ground, or re-grind beans, but I do think that "as a community" support should be given in a more friendly, less condescending way to people asking for assistance.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat Apr 14, 2012, 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

ocarolina Said:

I fully understand that this forum is coffeegeek, and that it is for coffee enthusiasts, but drinking coffee includes people from all ends of the spectrum - from home enthusiast to professional barista.  Obviously, I would never use ground, or re-grind beans, but I do think that "as a community" support should be given in a more friendly, less condescending way to people asking for assistance.

Posted April 14, 2012 link

We were not condescending to anyone, we try to comply with any and all posters requirements and budgets while pointing them to the best coffee they can have in their budget.

There is NO way that pre ground coffee can EVER make a good cup, there is NO way to regrind coffee without risking damage to the grinder AND producing poor grinds also.

I have been able to point people to good coffee in an under $100 budget but you will not get espresso for that budget. We DO cater to all levels of visitors to the board, from students who only want coffee to stay awake to long time members who are looking for the uber geek tweak  to get just a little more from their commercial home setup.

However, we do not lower our quality standard rather we will advise just WHY a particular machine or class of machine has issues and just what those issues are. To do less than that is to give less than our best advice.

People can choose to take the advice or not, their choice. A large percentage of those who come here looking for ease of use over quality and who take our advice about gear, later come back and thank us for pointing them to great coffee after they know better AND then try coffee from the superautomatics that they had once considered.

There is no way to deny that home designed Superautomatics, on average, have a very high repair rate, even commercial units have a much higher service requirements than their non super counterparts. It is the OPs choice, at least they will know both sides of the issue.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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ionltd
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Illinois
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 7:27am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Come on guys, he didn't mean he re-ground used beans...he meant he had to grind more beans for the next cups he had to make when friends were over.  

And you sound condescending to me too.

People come here for help in deciding what the best purchase will be for their wants and needs, and you're not happy unless they leave convinced to buy a Silvia and a rocky grinder if they want to have real classy taste.  I did two years ago and I honestly don't find the quality of the resulting brew is impressive enough to make up for the inconvenience and fuss and mess.  In fact, I find that the grinder was a total waste of money for $600+ as I couldn't tell the difference between grinding immediately before use and the good quality ground beans I had been purchasing.

Good luck to anyone else that comes here for advice on anything but the two items above.

So I'm off to purchase the great deal I found on a refurb Saeco Syntia HD8838/47 fully automatic at Seattle Coffee Gear.

.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 7:54am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

ionltd Said:

Come on guys, he didn't mean he re-ground used beans...he meant he had to grind more beans for the next cups he had to make when friends were over.  

And you sound condescending to me too.

People come here for help in deciding what the best purchase will be for their wants and needs, and you're not happy unless they leave convinced to buy a Silvia and a rocky grinder if they want to have real classy taste.  I did two years ago and I honestly don't find the quality of the resulting brew is impressive enough to make up for the inconvenience and fuss and mess.  In fact, I find that the grinder was a total waste of money for $600+ as I couldn't tell the difference between grinding immediately before use and the good quality ground beans I had been purchasing.

Good luck to anyone else that comes here for advice on anything but the two items above.

So I'm off to purchase the great deal I found on a refurb Saeco Syntia HD8838/47 fully automatic at Seattle Coffee Gear.

.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Well this post is old not sure why you just bumped an over 2 year old thread, but 1) you bought a Rocky grinder, nobody recommends a Rocky for years now, maybe about 10 years ago and if you paid $600+ for a Rocky I have a bridge to sell you, you got ripped off lol. And hardly anyone recommends the Silvia b/c it's overpriced new and other machines come equipped with PID and other features for less/same money. How fresh were the beans, did you temp surf the machine, did you allow at least 30-40 min warm up time, did you know how to steam correctly etc. I can tell you that a superauto is convenient, however the coffee it makes is no where near as good as a decent grinder and semi machine. Friend has a Jura C9 (from Seattle Coffee Gear as well) which is way more expensive then that Saeco, it's still pales vs my CC1 and Preciso which was much less money. Superautos don't hit the correct temps, don't have temp stability, built in grinders are poor, doesn't tamp well ...... if you like a 15 second gusher of an espresso or watered down coffee in general, superauto is a good choice.

It does take patience to learn a grinder/semi machine, but not hard, you could easily post question on here and people will help. I did when I first started and was moving away from pressurized PF entry machines.
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,373
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 8:04am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Gee, at the risk of sounding condescending, you've re-opened a moribund thread that (I thought) had blissfully dies nearly a year and a half ago, but . . . since we're raising the dead . . . .

ionltd Said:

Come on guys, he didn't mean he re-ground used beans...he meant he had to grind more beans for the next cups he had to make when friends were over.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

 
Uh, doesn't everyone grind more beans for additional cups?

ionltd Said:

And you sound condescending to me too.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Yes, well, I hate to think what you feel about all the responses your post will receive.

ionltd Said:

People come here for help in deciding what the best purchase will be for their wants and needs, and you're not happy unless they leave convinced to buy a Silvia and a rocky grinder . . .

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Good Lord, where the **** did you get that?!?!?  Some forum in 2003???  No wonder you resurrected a long dead thread!

ionltd Said:

In fact, I find that the grinder was a total waste of money for $600+ . . .

Posted September 5, 2013 link

You overpaid.

ionltd Said:

. . .  as I couldn't tell the difference between grinding immediately before use and the good quality ground beans I had been purchasing.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

If you enjoyed your pre-ground beans, you'll love the Saeco Syntia!

ionltd Said:

Good luck to anyone else that comes here for advice on anything but the two items above.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Good luck to anyone who does!

ionltd Said:

So I'm off to purchase the great deal I found on a refurb Saeco Syntia HD8838/47 fully automatic at Seattle Coffee Gear.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

And good luck to you, too.  I hope that machine works for you, and provides you will years of enjoyment.  Truly.  One thing you might want to know . . . it's not a "fully automatic" machine.  Just FYI, it's a super-automatic.  There is a HUGE difference between the two terms.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 8:23am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Jason, nice to see you!
As per normal, good post.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 2:27am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Good Lord, where the **** did you get that?!?!?  Some forum in 2003???  No wonder you resurrected a long dead thread!

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Yes, there is a new, updated dogma now, which I believe features prominently a 2-group Synesso machine, and considers the Mazzer Mini to be entry level. :)

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

And good luck to you, too.  I hope that machine works for you, and provides you will years of enjoyment.  Truly.  One thing you might want to know . . . it's not a "fully automatic" machine.  Just FYI, it's a super-automatic.  There is a HUGE difference between the two terms.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Some superautos are indeed called "full automatic" by their manufacturers.  Newbies should be advised, however, to tread lightly and spare the delicate feelings of Jason and the other G.I.F.s that patrol CG, and call machine categories by their proper names :)

P.S. Your espresso machine is wholly inadequate and cannot be used to make good espresso.

P.P.S. Your grinder is wholly inadequate and cannot be used to make good espresso.
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,392
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 6:09am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Go to the "Seattle Coffee gear" website (or search their video on YouTube) and watch them all. If what comes out of these machines qualifies as "espresso" to you that's fine. I have recently been writing a lot of  web text for a reseller of espresso machines and have written up quite a few super-auto machines (push a button, get a beverage). To do that I had to spend a good amount of time doing online research about each machine.  I have yet to see one video showing anything really good coming out of them. All of them are all plastic inside, and the better machines (the high end Juras, IMO) are very expensive (all things considered) and those do not have user accessible brew groups like some of the low end machines of other brands. That means that if there is a problem you need to shop it off unless you are fortunate to live near a repair center. And even then, all the Juras have the same internal brew group in them as the less-expensive models, so I have been told. You pay for the touch screens, computerized cleaning systems, programmable buttons, etc.

If quality coffee is the goal, why a super auto? Why trade a LOT of the quality of the beverage for a little convenience?
If convenience is a priority and the quality of the coffee can be so easily sacrificed, this sort of forum may not be the best place for useful information. Again, check SCG, and pay attention to what is brewing from these machines.

 
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www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 6:29am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

This is coming dangerously close to a personal attack and by some may even be over the line, happy face or not, I should delete the comment and issue a warning, be careful.

MJW Said:

..... spare the delicate feelings of Jason and the other G.I.F.s that patrol CG, and call machine categories by their proper names :)

Posted September 6, 2013 link



MJW Said:

Yes, there is a new, updated dogma now, which I believe features prominently a 2-group Synesso machine, and considers the Mazzer Mini to be entry level. :)

.  There is a HUGE difference between the two terms.

Posted September 6, 2013 link

A bit of hurt feelings going on here?
Clearly you are not REALLY serious, however there is a minimum level of quality that will make great espresso and sadly some of the equipment that shows up here will not cut the mustard.

MJW Said:

Some superautos are indeed called "full automatic" by their manufacturers.  Newbies should be advised, however, to tread lightly and spare the delicate feelings of Jason and the other G.I.F.s that patrol CG, and call machine categories by their proper names :)

P.S. Your espresso machine is wholly inadequate and cannot be used to make good espresso.

P.P.S. Your grinder is wholly inadequate and cannot be used to make good espresso.

Posted September 6, 2013 link

If this site were Coffee Barely Acceptable then superautos would be right at home, I think that GEEKS in the title pushes the level of discussion higher than base consumer level equipment but then YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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ionltd
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Illinois
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Sep 6, 2013, 10:36am
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on selecting a coffee machine
 

Sorry if I offended anyone by opening an old thread, but wow what a slew of new condescending remarks and more insults.  Classy folks with discerning taste buds.

Yes, the rocky was recommended to me here two years ago when I purchased it.  Not in 2003.  Thread after thread preached to buy used equipment if necessary if budgets were low, but it was unthinkable not to have an acceptable grinder if you wanted to make espresso drinks in your home.  Period.

I apologize for my mistype.  I did not spend $600 on the grinder alone, so keep your bridge.   just like the OP does not regrind used beans.  Taking the re grinding out of context to say "everyone grinds more beans" was a bit lame.

I have watched many videos from SCG as well as other contributors, however I couldn't taste the espresso through the screen on any of them.  I'll have to take the word of the folks reviewing them.

Another apology.  This one in advance to Jason (and others perhaps).  You are extremely condescending to the point that you twist what's written to make your point.  I want everyone to feel good about themselves, no matter how they seek approval.  So here goes....Jason, I admire your expertise on everything espresso.  The vernacular, equipment knowledge, pricing, timeliness, everything.....you even know what my drink needs to taste like to satisfy me.  

Good luck everyone discovering what you really need, not just in the espresso world.
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