Simspresso Senior Member Joined: 4 Apr 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Montreal, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Venus Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 7:52am Subject: How to get rid of puck holes!?
Hi guys!
Here is the deal, Shower screen and group head is beautiful and clean, although seems like there is a lot of pressure coming from the group head, Pressure is set at 10 bar during extraction, I always tamp with the 30lbs to get that nice slick finish... I sometimes see and notice 6 or less holes in the puck after extraction, leading to a pour extraction, it seems obviously that it over extract where the holes are, and under extract all around it...
Could it be caused by underdosing and having to much head space?
Might be a bit high. Try turning it down. Of course, without knowing your equipment ity is hard to give specific info. Update your profile.
I always tamp with the 30lbs to get that nice slick finish...
Means nothing. Try 40 pounds.. or 50 pounds. it won't matter.
I sometimes see and notice 6 or less holes in the puck after extraction, leading to a pour extraction,
Might be the grinder making too much dust. Might be a ot of things. Might not even matter. We drink the coffee. We don't eat the puck. It's what in the cup that matters. "Puckology" is a fairly worthless science.
...it seems obviously that it over extract where the holes are, and under extract all around it...
Nope.
Could it be caused by underdosing and having to much head space?
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:22am Subject: Re: How to get rid of puck holes!?
Simspresso Said:
Hi guys!
Here is the deal, Shower screen and group head is beautiful and clean, although seems like there is a lot of pressure coming from the group head, Pressure is set at 10 bar during extraction, I always tamp with the 30lbs to get that nice slick finish... I sometimes see and notice 6 or less holes in the puck after extraction, leading to a pour extraction, it seems obviously that it over extract where the holes are, and under extract all around it...
Could it be caused by underdosing and having to much head space?
How much are you dosing? Do you measure your doses on a scale or just fill up the basket till its flush? Channeling or puck holes is a common issue and is not always the easiest thing to solve without a lot of trial and error.
Every machine is different, but a consistent measured dose, a slightly finer grind and a light tamp (5-10 lbs) was the combination of variables that solved most of my channeling issues. Took me a while to figure all this out, but I did end up learning in my case that the distribution of the grounds is far more important than the tamp.
MARIOBARBA Senior Member Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Posts: 126 Location: MONTREAL CANADA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso DUO Prof TRONIC Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 12:38pm Subject: Re: How to get rid of puck holes!?
For my machine, big holes in a circle near the centre of the puck along with a thin underextracted espresso is usually due to channeling caused by too low a dose. Try increasing by . 5g increments and see if that helps.
Simspresso Senior Member Joined: 4 Apr 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Montreal, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Venus Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 1:16pm Subject: Re: How to get rid of puck holes!?
Thanks guys!
Fresh beans as much as possible!
Grinder is not a issue,
For a double, Im getting 2 ounces in 26 secs !!!and usually not much chanelling there...
Channeling mostly occurs on single shot...
As I grind I shake the pf so its nice and level all throughout the way up, then I level so its nice and flush...
It seems that if I do this procedure for doubles, no problem for chanelling except that acidity is an issue, and the crema is as thick as the liquid(looks good but seems to dissipate quickly)
My single shot seems to be too small to simply fill evenly and level and then tamp, if I do the same procedure as for the double shot, there is too much coffee and it touches the screen...
I have a scale thats ordered and is in the mail...
I guess 7grams for single and 14g for double is okay, am I wrong?
grind settings vary between single and double shots, so if you're going to switch back and forth, you're going to have to readjust your grinder each time. You're better off using the double all of the time and then spilling the excess if you really only need/want a single. This is likely why your doubles don't channel and your singles do.
Simspresso Said:
I guess 7grams for single and 14g for double is okay, am I wrong?
That's the Italian institute standard...and a good place to start, but let your taste decide. Some overdose, some don't - but it's personal preference.
I have two additional recommendations:
1) go read Randy's (frcn) article about fixing your problems on his website, http://www.espressomyespresso.com/ , the article you need is called EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME
2) get yourself a naked/bottomless portafilter handle. It'll let you watch the extraction (there's a great photo in Randy's article above) and see if you really have channeling. Not only that, it looks cool!
Simspresso Senior Member Joined: 4 Apr 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Montreal, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Venus Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 7:07am Subject: Re: How to get rid of puck holes!?
Great to know! So if you need to change your grind for a single shot, do you make it finer or coarser??
But keeping it doubles seems like a good way to go! Ive already started reading his article, but there is a lot of information but it all seems relevant and precious info to keep in mind
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,314 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Apr 13, 2012, 1:20pm Subject: Re: How to get rid of puck holes!?
When trying to learn I would just pick one type and just pull that one time tightening up the variables on just one size pull. I am in the US and the PNW coffee shops are doing an over dosed double and some times a triple by Italian standards. So, because the beans I am buying start out with dosing in the 17-19 range recommended by the roaster I picked just staying about 18g dose. Then using a scale and a timer I am tightening up my pulls and getting very good results I believe. I could be deluded because of my lack of palate and cupping expertise. But they look good, have the right time/ratios and they taste good to me in milk. When trying to learn something just pick one thing and stick too it and don't try to jump around because then you can't see what you did to make things better/worse. Just use the time and the shot weight to know if you need a finer grind or looser.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
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