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Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Breville Dual...

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dagoat
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 292
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: BDB (Breville Dual Boiler...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto

Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 4:43pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Variable pressure output (that is effective and controllable) from a vibe pump? S'truth! No wonder youz guys patented it! Good info on the BDB's temp stability vs. the bucks-up saturated's. Truth is--my throughput is such that I would like a plumb-in--and rotary would be nice too but not required. -Peter

Stuart
Senior Member

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Posts: 113
Location: TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Roaster: Air Crazy popper

Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 8:02pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Wow. Breville's patent attorneys have been busy: Click Here (www.google.com) Click Here (www.google.com) (others discoverable at Google Patents -- search on Breville coffee or Breville pump -- or Breville pressure.) And as an enthusiastic owner I can testify gleefully to the partial-pressure pre-infusion. I have yet to start modifying that parameter; the default seems to work well. But it's very different from the default chosen by another, less costly, computer-controlled pre-infusion espresso maker. I suspect that's because the witchy vibratory pump wasn't available for the other machine. (US patent applications are made public a year after filing. The US Patent Office has been falling behind lately, and lots of applications are being made public before they've been accepted.) What about that preinfusion variable? Surely, someone who bought this machine has played with that setting. But a search on the fora reveals little.

swimjay
Senior Member

Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Berkeley, CA 94708
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Orphan...

Posted Fri Apr 6, 2012, 8:15pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Phil said: "Hi Peter Yes it is an Ulka pump. Yes, the brew boiler pump does deliver the pre-infusion. The abiltiy to adjust pre-infusion pressure using a vibe pump is part of a patent we've lodged on how this is achieved. Saturated group? Why? Oh yeah, greater temp stability.......I've owned both LM & Synesso 3 grp machines & was an early adopter of the Scace devices (I & II) & I can tell you that the BDB is more capable of delivering brew water that is in a much tighter range than any saturated grp machine I've ever tested. BDB units from production that I've tested have even exceeded the WBC temp stabilty test protocol for 14 consecutive shots. I'm sure you've all read MP's initial review." Did an experiment this morning pulling 3 shots, all within .05 grams of grounds, all ground at the same setting with a Baratza Preciso, one each at 199, 200, and 201 degrees. The differences were clearly evident--the warmest shot was a little hard, pleasingly bright, narrow, the middle was, well, middle, more complex but a little less vivid, and the coolest was a touch sour, but in a way different from what I was expecting--not sour like a lemon, but sour like a fermentation product, like yoghurt--and the least compelling of the three. Just grateful the BDB was available when I decided to get a machine. (Don't have this quoting thing down yet. If I try to remove any text from the post I'm trying to quote, I don't get the official white background, etc..)

swimjay
Senior Member

Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Berkeley, CA 94708
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Orphan...

Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 2:16pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Often when I'm getting used to a new roast, my grinder settings are way off. A gusher can be worth drinking, or drinking a little of, but I've recently discovered something interesting about the other direction. On a complete choke, the pump shuts itself off in 90 seconds (actually, shuts itself off in 90 seconds no matter what). But sometimes, a few drops might fall at 50 seconds, and accelerate until one has half a shot at 90 seconds. Immediately starting another shot, by punching the manual button twice (no pre-infusion) can often yield a complete shot in another 10 or 15 seconds--a super ristretto. This also can be interesting to drink some or all of. Has anyone done any more work figuring out the volumetric buttons? I think they'd be useful if one were making multiple drinks of a particular grind/roast, but otherwise, I can't figure out how they should be used, as the resulting volume varies so much as one changes the bean or grind, at least the one time I tried to use them. But perhaps that was just that bean/roast? (It was a difficult one).

klund
Senior Member

Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 71
Location: Southern MN, USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario-W

Posted Sun Apr 15, 2012, 11:40am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

I just wanted to throw out that I am having so much fun with this machine. I am continuing to tinker to try and get better and better. I am very impressed with the frothing wand on the BDB. The smooth, velvety goodness has given me the best cappuccinos that I've ever had, and now my kids demand their own coffees. So I'll froth up some milk and pour it into my little Bodum glasses. I have no idea why they like it - probably just because they're getting something "grown-up" from dad. (one kid decided he didn't like it, he just gets cold milk) My wife even commented after one cappuccino made with Redbird - "Is there a hint of chocolate to this?" I'm assuming that means I did something right!

-- klund Well then, you should see me without coffee.

CoffeeGroo
Senior Member

Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Austin

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: AeroPress

Posted Sun Apr 15, 2012, 10:00pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

I'm pretty frustrated these days. I cannot for the life of me get 2oz of good espresso from the BDB. I'm using a Preciso, Naked Portafilter, and some fresh intelligentsia beans. I'm brewing at 201. I'm going with the standard 6s pre-infusion. I'm likely using a >30lb tamp... I'm at 27s for a 2oz shot (not including the 6s pre-infusion) 18g VST basket with 18g weighed being put into it via digital scale. Gauge says 8-9 bar. I can choke it with grind (oops), it maxes between 10-10.5 bar. The first ounce is thick and awesome. Really, I should need a license to make something this good. The second ounce is where blonding takes over. It tastes watery, hardly like coffee at all and thin. Granted, because I'm using a naked portafilter, I"m getting the first oz in glass one and the second oz in glass two. So the first oz should be richer. But I hate sinking the second shot and doing another basket to get a good drink. Thoughts? Any chance I have a hardware issue? Could brewing too cold cause this (if the temp on my machine wasn't working properly)? Based on what I read here, I can't find anything obvious I'm doing wrong. For some reason, things go blond way too quick.

agoldberg
Senior Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 17
Location: Maryland
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Apr 16, 2012, 7:45am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

So you're actually swapping out cups when the shot reaches an ounce? That's your problem right there. If you want to split a double into two shots, use a standard double basket that will pour into two. The pour of an espresso isn't going to be even from start to finish. It will be stronger at the start and end with a blonde crema. It sounds like you're pouring a pretty good shot, but canceling out all your hard work by forcing the shots to be uneven.

CoffeeGroo
Senior Member

Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Austin

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: AeroPress

Posted Mon Apr 16, 2012, 9:06am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

Well yes, I'm swapping cups....but Indiana Jones style, real quick. I start off two shot glasses right next to each other and switch mid-stream (this is for learning purposes). There is no spillage. I do get that the 2nd shot should be "weaker", but it is near water. My logic is that at the very least it should taste like strong coffee.

agoldberg
Senior Member

Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 17
Location: Maryland
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Apr 16, 2012, 9:44am Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

I think your logic is faulty. The last half of a shot pull will be almost entirely crema. A shot will never be completely even from start to finish. It's impossible for that to be the case. Try switching to a normal double-spout portafilter and see how much the shot quality of both shots rises. I've never heard of anyone try to get two shots with the method you're trying, and for good reason. If you want to split the shot into two glasses, you need to do it over the course of the entire shot, not halfway through.

swimjay
Senior Member

Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 37
Location: Berkeley, CA 94708
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Baratza Preciso, Orphan...

Posted Mon Apr 16, 2012, 9:43pm Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler BES900XL Owners Thread

CoffeeGroo said (I'm hoping this isn't a troll): "I'm pretty frustrated these days. I cannot for the life of me get 2oz of good espresso from the BDB. The first ounce is thick and awesome. Really, I should need a license to make something this good. The second ounce is where blonding takes over. It tastes watery, hardly like coffee at all and thin. Granted, because I'm using a naked portafilter, I"m getting the first oz in glass one and the second oz in glass two. So the first oz should be richer. But I hate sinking the second shot and doing another basket to get a good drink. " Why do you feel the need to get two ounces of drink from 18g of coffee? 18g of coffee only has so much goodness in it, and it may not be enough to give you 2 ounces (56.5 grams). In fact, you're doing the perfect experiment to demonstrate this, by separating the first half of the pour from the second! With 18.5 grams, if my shot is more than 29--36 grams, depending on the bean and the roast, it's only going downhill. Anything added after that point only subtracts from the taste of the drink. You might as well add straight water. Why not just make two shots, each with its own 18g of beans? Coffee's just not that expensive :>)! The first ounce is the way it's supposed to taste!!

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