vanchopski Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Apr 21, 2012, 12:43pm Subject: Steam pressure release went off
Looks like I need some more advice here.
We've been running this machine and leaving it on all day and haven't had any problems with it (aside from the one plugged group)...until this morning that it.
The steam pressure release valve suddenly went off today and when I looked the steam pressure valve was well above 1.5 bar and climbing.
I shut it down and let it cool off then restarted it and checked steam temp on the read out. It's set for 254 degrees but was at 265 and climbing too. How should this temp behave? My understanding is that the PID is supposed to anticipate temp rise and control the heater accordingly to keep temps constant. It's obviously not doing this.
I've got a bad feeling this could be a bad PID? Any ideas?
vanchopski Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 12:02pm Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
Any insight or advice on this would be a big help! Does anyone have much experience with these machines?
I realise I may have to call in a technician but I'd like to at least understand how the temp controls are supposed to work.
As I mentioned the steam boiler temp is set at 254 degrees. Is that a good temp setting? And so the steam temp shouldn't go much beyond that temp because the PID should be anticipating and correcting before the temp exceeds the setting correct?
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,683 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2012, 6:06am Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
Welcome but,..... we do need A LOT more information! What brand of machine? Model ? Factory PID or aftermarket? Did you install it or did some one else? How old is the machine? Have you descaled recently? Do you back flush regularly?
You kind of asked, "my car won't start, any ideas?"
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vanchopski Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Apr 23, 2012, 10:12am Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
Haha. Sorry.
I was following up on my previous post in which I did mention the make etc.
So it's a FB/80. Completely stock as far as I know. I did the install myself but Les Kuan was kind enough to come check the machine out for us and he said it seems to be in great shape.
It's only ever been used in Vancouver where the water is VERY soft so no I haven't descaled it. I've taken apart the groups and there was minimal scale in them. Is scaling of the boiler one potential cause of this problem?
For the first two weeks there were no problems with the steam pressure release valve going off.
Posted Mon Apr 23, 2012, 11:49am Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
If it never shuts the heating element off it could be a bad SSR. With power disconnected, you could try to disconnect and insulate the leads to the SSR FROM the PID and see if the heating element is then off. if NO - then the SSR has failed closed if YES - then the PID is not turning the SSR off and the PID needs to be investigated.
vanchopski Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Apr 23, 2012, 7:25pm Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
Thanks frcn.
Are the SSR and PID's are on the left hand side of the machine when looking at the control panel? To the left of the boilers? Can I access them by removing the left hand body panel?
Posted Mon Apr 23, 2012, 8:11pm Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
I wish I could be of more help. If you trace back from the heating element, one of the wires should go to the SSR. There would be 4 wires thee two heavy and two thin. The two thin ones carry the switching current from the PID. Now, mind you, these are general comments on how most SSR/PIDs are wired. If you have access to the schematic of this machine we could be more help, but beyond that my comments here are general, at best.
BUT, what I can say for sure is that your boiler is being stressed and the machine should be repaired before further use since the safety release can spray moisture all over the inside of the machine causing corrosion of electrical connections and other such damage. Opening the entire machine up would be a good idea if, for no other reason, to let the inside dry out.
vanchopski Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2012, 10:02am Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
Thanks again frcn. I really appreciate your input.
Our local tech was supposed to come by yesterday but never showed. I'll try him again but that kind of service makes me nervous and makes me that much more determined to be self sufficient when it comes to being able to service my machine.
I've got the manual but no schematic there of course. I've also looked around online and haven't been able to find it there. Seems LM keeps a tight hold of that manual although they seem to have published all of the other ones.
I've been looking at the programming manual and came across some interesting info there...it says the FB80 doesn't use the PID to control the steam boiler as it's handled by a pressure switch. Yet when I look at the menu on my machine there is a set temp for the steam boiler and also a readout of live temp. Does anyone know for sure how this works? If there's truly no PID on my machine then it's possible I have a bad pressure switch.
Following the leads from the heating element as you suggested does indicate that the SSR is on the left side of the machine so I'll see if I can expose those components..
vanchopski Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2012, 11:24am Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
After digging around it looks like there are no SSR's. Presumably then the power to the heating elements is handled by the CPU since that's where the wires from the elements seem to go. Yikes! Now I'm really hoping it's a relatively inexpensive pressure switch to blame here and not the cpu!
vanchopski Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2012, 1:35pm Subject: Re: Steam pressure release went off
Whatever the problem is it's intermittent. When I first switch the machine on it stabilizes properly. If I use the steam it seems to stabilize a couple of times but then suddenly the temp pressure (and temp) starts to rise quickly past 1.5 bar.
This whole thing is made all the more tricky since the parts diagrams don't reflect what is actually on the machine.
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