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Espresso: Espresso Machines
Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Yep, another new...  
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Sat Apr 21, 2012, 6:06pm
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

GlenO Said:

If you're willing to go with the older version of the Rocket Cellini Premium Plus, check with various dealers.  It should still be available at a reduced/close-out price for a few hundred dollars less than the V2.  The only significant differences are the insulated boiler and a built-in brew head gauge on the V2, both nice to have but not all that critical from the research I did when buying my Rocket.  With the addition of the grinder and accessories you should then be close to your $2k budget.

Have fun with your selection!

Posted April 21, 2012 link

looks like the older version is going for 100 bucks less.  it's 1699 on SCG.  maybe call in to the store and see if they can bundle in a vario or other grinder for a discount.  i see that the older version has a bundle option on the website to discount 50 bucks off the vario.

for less money, maybe consider the Preciso over the Vario.  You may prefer the conical burrs on it over the flat ceramic burrs on the vario.  Reliability should be similar as a home grinder(definitely not in the commercial class in that regard) and ability to adjust for espresso should be about the same(obviously different interface for adjustments, though).
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ccolton
Senior Member
ccolton
Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Posts: 132
Location: Wilmington DE
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Le 'lit PL53
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 7:49am
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

Hi Jowler,

You have a lot of information here and the decision is a difficult one.  My guess is that, if you choose one of the machines recommended here, you will be happy.  Good luck!

Now, let me add information specific to my purchases:  BZ07 and Le'lit PL53.  First, if you are planning to use the grinder for only espresso and you want to keep the footprint down, this is a great deal at $269.  Downsides:  noisy and the chute gets clogged ocassionally.  I am happy with it.

BZ07:  Before seeing it in person, I would have agreed with you that the others you mentioned were better looking - after having seen several machines in person at 1st-line, I think the BZ07 is one of the best looking.  I also like the small footprint - the others seemed very large to me.  Negatives:  filling th water container is slightly awkward; it's impossible to lower it into the machine without sticking a finger into the opening of the container itself - very strange.  Overall, I have been quite happy.

Chris
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,398
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 8:46am
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

jowler Said:

Jason,
great reply as always!

Posted April 21, 2012 link

Thank you.  (blush)  

jowler Said:

ugghhh, why did you have to show me the Quick Mill?

Posted April 21, 2012 link

See?  Perhaps it wasn't such a great reply!  ;^)

jowler Said:

SO... if down to the QM or Rocket,  what say you experts?  is it just down to personal preference based on appearance?  or are there significant performance or quality issues to consider?

Posted April 21, 2012 link

Doug, I'm not an expert by any means.  I've never considered myself anything more than an "experienced amateur" in the world of espresso -- more than a newbie, but far from being an expert.

Whether it's something like a Rocket, a Quick Mill, or a Bezzera, the bottom line is that it is all-too-easy to get carried away (hey, that's only $150 more, I can afford that; but that's only another $100 -- I can do that, right?  Oooh, and for another $120, I could get -- and all of a sudden your budget is out the window!).  So my "mantra" is stick to your budget, plus 10%.

At some point, any machine will give you what you need.  So aesthetics begin to play a role -- it's your kitchen; you'll going to be living with it.  

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 9:13am
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

Jason is right pick the one you think is pretty from this list. Just from the reviews on the 3 your considering now, I think any of these would make you very happy.  This is a better list for my money than your first one.  I agree about budget and not going nuts, but on the machine- if you pick really well you should have this a really long time.  So, I think 100 - 200 more makes no difference if you spread that out over 5-10 years because you picked well. Rather than have to sell it at a loss next year to get the one you should have bought in the first place.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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jwsnyder919
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 90
Location: All over
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Andreja Premium
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sun Apr 22, 2012, 11:10am
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

for that budget, check out the andreja premium.  I was in a similar place to you earlier this year (I started wanting a gaggia classic and virtuoso...my how things changed).  I essentially came down to the cellini and andreja premium.  I went with the QM over the cellini because I can direct plumb it in the future if I desire and some other techincal reasons that I currently forget and probably don't matter.  All I know is I'm super happy with my vario and andreja premium.

I dealt with Chris' Coffee and maybe they'd give you a deal on the grinder and machine.  They're the exclusive distributor for QM and as such might have some flexibility where others do not.  Other folks have had great experiences with Seattle Coffee Gear.  Call either and and ask them what they can do for you.  I bet they get it to your budget (or pretty darn near).  If they can't, I'd buy a baratza vario refurbed from baratza without any hesitation.  They pop up regularly on their site.  I'd also check the buyers remorse section of Chris' Coffee.  They currently have a vario on their buyer's remorse section.  I've yet to read about a bad experience with Chris' Coffee and I've had a few pleasant interactions myself (including when they worked with me a bit on my Andreja Premium purchase).  

Also, I think I saw someone mention the NS oscar.  Another machine that has a legion of devotees.  I would have gotten the oscar if it produced hot water on demand (fiancee's go-to drink is an americano, so no hot water = deal breaker).  The BZ07 was also on my short list, but decided I liked the cellini and Andreja better.  

Good luck!  Let us know what you decide!

Edit: I think Jason is right about at some point it's aesthetics.  I preferred the look of the QM.  Others like the rocket.  But, it's really close to me -- in the end it was mainly because I can direct plumb if I want.  I can't remember if the rocket has an insulated boiler, but I'm glad my Andreja does.  She definitely gets warm, but i can at least caress her (I laughed as I typed this...so creepy....).
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jowler
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Sacramento CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

So, an update.  I'm going to wait a few weeks til the new Quickmill dual boiler is out for some reviews.  Looks like a great machine that is comparable to the others I listed.  Any thoughts from the pros?
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GlenO
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Portland, OR
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Cellini PP
Grinder: Forte AP, Macap M4 Stepless;...
Roaster: HotTopB-2k, UFO/TO
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 5:49pm
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

jowler Said:

So, an update.  I'm going to wait a few weeks til the new Quickmill dual boiler is out for some reviews.  Looks like a great machine that is comparable to the others I listed.  Any thoughts from the pros?

Posted April 26, 2012 link

Wow...that seems like a very nice introductory price Chris Coffee is offering on the machine.  The only things I noticed were that, compared to other dual boilers on the market, it uses a vibe pump instead of a rotary and it doesn't appear it can be direct plumbed in (at least the description only mentions water reservoir).  I assume that helps explain the lower price as compared to other makers.  It will be very interesting to see the reviews once it's available in late May.
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jowler
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Sacramento CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 5:56pm
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

It will be tempting, I think I my choice will boil (no pun) down to be between the Andreja and the new double boiler.  Couple of tradeoffs already pointed out, dual boiler/PID vs direct plumb capability and what seems to be better fit/finish.  Wish the new one had a rotary...
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,128
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 6:42pm
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

ccolton Said:

Negatives:  filling th water container is slightly awkward; it's impossible to lower it into the machine without sticking a finger into the opening of the container itself - very strange.  Chris

Posted April 22, 2012 link

Hey Chris (and others who have this problem),

I have a large plastic funnel that I use to to hold over the reservoir when filling it.  I don't take the reservoir out.  Instead, I fill a Pyrex pitcher with water then carry it over to the machine and pour it through the funnel.  It's still a pain, but I think it's easier than removing the reservoir every time.  I had the funnel laying around with all my beer brewing equipment...i.e., they're available through home brew suppliers.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 7:10pm
Subject: Re: Yep, another new user who needs some buying advice...
 

Mine is not the same model but I do have the same issue.  I have my machine close to the sink, my spray hose reaches the back tank.  I put the sprayer in the hole.  Make sure it is in (that was a bad morning when I did it half awake and missed the hole) and turn on the water.  I listen to hear when sounds like it is getting full and I stop.  It is pretty easy for me. It is almost as good as plumbed in, I don't have to move it and it only takes a few seconds at the beginning of each session.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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