calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Apr 20, 2012, 7:30am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
I posted this on my Silvia thread,
calblacksmith Said:
Thanks guys, it was a fun project and if I was able to help someone or take some of the mystery away from working on these machines, it was worth it.
A note on the operation of Silvia and the PID:
With the PID set at 221F (brew temp) the heater comes on just about every two seconds for about a quarter of a second, just holding the temp to within that 1 deg F. The temp bounces back and forth between 220 and 221 but mostly at 221. The PID is operating at the pre programmed settings for Silvia from Auber. I can set it for more accurate stability of within .1 F at the expense of a longer stabilizing period but for me, 1 deg F is "close enough"
The first Latte I made since the rework had me behind the ball so to speak. I am so used to my HX machine that I just pulled the shots and started to steam the milk, I then realized there was no steam as I had not switched the machine to steam mode so I had to wait for it to come up to temp LOL! It did not take long but it felt like eternity!
Though she does not steam nearly as strong as my home machine, I was easily able to make a very silky microfoam in fairly short order. The "burn me" steam wand is going to take a little getting used to though and I think I may need to make a new tip for the steam wand, I really do not like cleaning the baked on milk from all the facets of the nut shaped tip, round or egg shape would be MUCH better.
rodraguirre Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2012 Posts: 2 Location: California Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Miss Silvia V3 with PID Grinder: Baratza Preciso with Esatto
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 4:42pm Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
Hello
I have one Miss Silvia with PID, bought from Dave at hitechespresso here in LA. It's a great machine!
I've been pulling my shots for the last 10 months and improving my home barista skills each day. Although I always enjoyed my espressos, I knew I was missing something, by comparing my shots with the ones I used to drink at Jones Coffee Roaster in Pasadena and Intelligentsia Coffee in Silver lake, my favorite coffee paradises around here.
So I've finally had a chance to attend a home barista workshop last week, and since then my life has changed! Now I'm being able to pull the same wonderful shots I get in those places right from my Silvia! And what was wrong all this time? It was the temperature!
Since day one, I've always had my PID set to 215F-220F (actually I bought it already set to 217F, as recommended by Dave) and I also always read in many places that the correct temperature for the PID was indeed around that.
But then, during this workshop, I've had the chance to bring my own machines and measure its parameters using professional equipment.
Basically what solved the mistery was a SCACE device. It is a portafilter with a precision thermometer inside, as well as a plastic element that mimics the resistance of a coffee puck during the brewing process, making it possible to measure the water temperature INSIDE the portafilter at the moment of brewing.
Surprisingly to me, my shots were being pulled at 215F-216F with my previous PID setting. TOO HOT!
So, after lots of experiments, we've found that the correct setting, to have stable 200F inside the portafilter is... 200F! :)
(It's important to do a 2oz flush before the shot to have stable temperature during the whole brewing time - And don't worry about the temperature drop in the PID display: it will be VERY stable inside the portafilter)
I cannot describe in words here how happy I was to taste that wonderful cup of coffee, with perfect crema, body, sweetness, everything I was looking for when I bought my machine. And since then, i've been able to consistently pull wonderfull shots with this new temperature setting in my PID.
So, bottomline: Try setting your PID to 200 and do a taste test. If you can find someone with a Scace device to borrow or rent, that's the best solution. Buying one could be too expensive ($300+)
chasemonster Senior Member Joined: 3 Jun 2010 Posts: 364 Location: Chicago Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Audrey Grinder: Hario Mini Mill Drip: V60
Posted Wed May 2, 2012, 7:14am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
rodraguirre Said:
Hello I have one Miss Silvia with PID... ... I've been pulling my shots for the last 10 months and improving my home barista skills each day. Although I always enjoyed my espressos, I knew I was missing something, by comparing my shots with the ones I used to drink at Jones Coffee Roaster in Pasadena and Intelligentsia Coffee in Silver lake, my favorite coffee paradises around here.
heehee Our self-annointed experts here are wetting themselves in ecstasy from reading these first paragraphs...ROFL So much of their reputation has been invested over the years in racing around these discussion forums from thread to thread to bad-mouth the Rancilio Silvia every chance they can.
rodraguirre Said:
So I've finally had a chance to attend a home barista workshop last week, and since then my life has changed! Now I'm being able to pull the same wonderful shots I get in those places right from my Silvia! I cannot describe in words here how happy I was to taste that wonderful cup of coffee, with perfect crema, body, sweetness, everything I was looking for when I bought my machine.
Too bad our self-annointed experts here aren't wise enough, like you, to figure out why they couldn't get their Rancilio Silvia to work properly. Of couse, for them to admit they were wrong now, after years of bad-mouthing the Rancilio Silvia, would essentially invalidate %25 to %30 of their posts and pretty much destroy their psyche. Don't hold your breath waiting!
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,738 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed May 2, 2012, 8:35am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
chasemonster Said:
heehee Our self-annointed experts here are wetting themselves in ecstasy from reading these first paragraphs...ROFL So much of their reputation has been invested over the years in racing around these discussion forums from thread to thread to bad-mouth the Rancilio Silvia every chance they can.
Too bad our self-annointed experts here aren't wise enough, like you, to figure out why they couldn't get their Rancilio Silvia to work properly. Of couse, for them to admit they were wrong now, after years of bad-mouthing the Rancilio Silvia, would essentially invalidate %25 to %30 of their posts and pretty much destroy their psyche. Don't hold your breath waiting!
I'm not entirely sure whether it's worth it to get into this discussion but...
Although I'm not one of those experts, I think your comments are misplaced. No, I don't have one, but I used to. So, before you discount my comments to not owning one. I had two for a while and essentially used a Silvia for about 10 years, before upgrading only last December. You've totally ignored the limitations of the Silvia. It's slow and that in and of itself makes it difficult to pump out the drinks when entertaining. There are more, but I'm not going to repeat the innumerable comments made by many forum members here - not just the "experts" you've decided to attack. If you were to actually read the comments made previously with an objective mindset, rather than looking at them as a personal attack on your "baby", you'd probably begin to notice that most of those comments had little or nothing to do with quality.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu May 3, 2012, 6:18am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
chasemonster Said:
heehee Our self-annointed experts here are wetting themselves in ecstasy from reading these first paragraphs...ROFL So much of their reputation has been invested over the years in racing around these discussion forums from thread to thread to bad-mouth the Rancilio Silvia every chance they can.
Too bad our self-annointed experts here aren't wise enough, like you, to figure out why they couldn't get their Rancilio Silvia to work properly. Of couse, for them to admit they were wrong now, after years of bad-mouthing the Rancilio Silvia, would essentially invalidate %25 to %30 of their posts and pretty much destroy their psyche. Don't hold your breath waiting!
I also think you are a little...... overly critical of anyone who points out the limits of Silvia. I own one and I can say without reservation that it is a limited machine and in todays market, over priced when new and sometimes even when used.
I never said it CAN NOT made good espresso, but it is slow to respond, has limited steaming power and for making multiple milk drinks, it is..... less than "nice" to use.
Can it make good shots, SURE but it remains a starter level machine that can be tamed with proper temp control, but even tamed, it is ..... limited.
Just saying and of course, your mileage may vary. ;P
EDIT, OH, Rodrigo, we are well aware of a Scace device and how they work, welcome to better espresso!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Unfortunately, this is where your lack of knowledge shows through. The Rancilio Silvia doesn't just make 'good' shots, it makes FANTASTIC shots. The only thing keeping the Rancilio Silvia from making high quality espresso is the lack of knowledge and skill of the user. (or to put it bluntly: the ignorance of the user) And for this reason, it is Not a 'starter' machine, but quite the opposite. It is a machine more for the experienced user. Or for the person who is willing to go through a complicated learning process in order to achieve some of the best espresso possible. For someone to proclaim that the Rancilio Silvia is a starter machine, either they are speaking from ignorance about the machine, or they have some hidden agenda/axe to grind.
Now, I have read some of your posts in the past. You have stated that you prepare some wild crazy high-caffeinated "road rage" concoction of a milk drink every day for your ride to work. Something like pouring 5 or 6 shots of espresso into a huge cup and then drowning in it all in a huge amount of steamed milk. This tells me that you are not really an espresso aficionado, but more of a Starbucks "drown-it-in-milk" drink user -except that you have even taken that to a whole other level. And so, you need a huge massive commercial Starbucks-type of machine to make your huge massive milk drinks. And yes, for your situation, the Rancilio Silvia would Not be the machine for you, as it would be "limited" in its abilities to make such a ridiculous drink.
But I (as well as hundreds of thousands of other people) aren't making such a preposterous drink every morning, and we don't need or want some massive 100-pound tank of an HX machine with a ridiculously large commercial steam boiler sitting in our kitchens. We also don't have World War II tanks sitting in our driveways to use to drive back and forth to the grocery store.
calblacksmith Said:
I own one and I can say without reservation that it is a limited machine and in todays market, over priced when new and sometimes even when used.
This is another fabrication that keeps being repeated over and over until the unknowledgeable end up accepting it as fact. The TRUTH is, far from being over-priced, the Rancilio Silvia may very well be the best value on the market! Not only can it produce world-class espresso, but it can also outlast just about any machine out there. Plus, it is one the finest looking espresso machines on the market -(if looks are important to you) And, it is the Mercedes Benz of espresso machines as far as holding its value.
But it takes skill and knowledge, as well as an appreciation of the "art" of making espresso in order to get the Rancilio Silvia to perform at its high level. It is NOT a machine for pumping out commercial-style "drown-it-in-milk" concoctions one after the other as fast as possible, with no regard for the quality of espresso produced. Even so, once someone Has perfected the art of making high quality espresso with the Rancilio Silvia, they are certainly going to find out that the steaming functionality of the machine is quite impressive too.
ocarolina Senior Member Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 59 Location: chicago suburbs Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio silvia 3 Grinder: baratza preciso Drip: french press - no drip Roaster: behmor / iroast2
Posted Thu May 3, 2012, 8:17am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
Chase monster, I own one too, and agree with alot of what you said. I find that if you have good quality and fresh roasted beans, you can pull beautiful shots. I am not a huge entertainer, but being a trained chef from culinary school who has drank many cups of coffees - it its a great machine.
A starter machine is not a $600-700 machine, and I have found that if you try to discuss machines on this forum, you get a bunch of flack from people that like to make you feel like a complete idiot (which I can assure you that I am not). Starter machines are the ones that are under $300. I gave up on other posts, because many of the people on this forum have nothing better to do that tell us that we are using inferior products unless we spend thousands of dollars on machines. My life does not revolve 24 hours around coffee, even though I am passionate about it.
I do agree that you are able to get great drinks from the Silvia, and I make 2 coffees back to back every morning with no issues ever. I never would entertain my guests to my home with espresso drinks anyway, as I have a large tiki hut and bar built by my talented husband, and most of my guests prefer tropical drinks made in my Vitamix blender LOL. BTW, I am in the Chicago area too.
chasemonster Senior Member Joined: 3 Jun 2010 Posts: 364 Location: Chicago Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Audrey Grinder: Hario Mini Mill Drip: V60
Posted Thu May 3, 2012, 8:42am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
ocarolina Said:
A starter machine is not a $600-700 machine, and I have found that if you try to discuss machines on this forum, you get a bunch of flack from people that like to make you feel like a complete idiot (which I can assure you that I am not). Starter machines are the ones that are under $300. I gave up on other posts, because many of the people on this forum have nothing better to do that tell us that we are using inferior products unless we spend thousands of dollars on machines.
Hey Carolyn, What I have always found so hilarious, is that our self-anointed experts here have no problem wasting thousands and thousands of dollars on a bunch of over-priced espresso equipment for themselves. But whenever someone comes along who is thinking of buying a Rancilio Silvia, all of a sudden these self-anointed 'experts' appear out of nowhere to proclaim that buying a Rancilio Silvia is a waste of money. It is truly the height of hypocrisy and ignorance.
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