ocarolina Senior Member Joined: 30 Apr 2007 Posts: 59 Location: chicago suburbs Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio silvia 3 Grinder: baratza preciso Drip: french press - no drip Roaster: behmor / iroast2
Posted Thu May 3, 2012, 9:04am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
Bill, Thanks for the laugh. I just want to come to the forum and get good advice, not made to feel belittled. Everyonw has a different taste, budget, time, and desire for how they want to have and make their coffee. No one should be made to feel indifferent because they may choose something different that what I may choose. I just think that it is coffee and not biochemistry. People put way too much thought and time into telling others that what they own is a piece of garbage. (not worth my time for that stuff)
rodraguirre Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2012 Posts: 2 Location: California Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Miss Silvia V3 with PID Grinder: Baratza Preciso with Esatto
Posted Thu May 3, 2012, 9:16am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
WOW this topic got super HOT (as well as my poor Silvia was before) =)
I'm new here, and I never imagined there would be such a thing as "Silvia haters"...
Bill and Carolyn, although I'm not an expert in this matter, the guy that provided the home barista workshop I have attended IS an expert in the world of coffee. And his message about machine was totally in sync with your statements here:
"If you're not pulling great shots out of your Silvia, most probably YOU are the problem..."
We've had a chance of comparing back-to-back espresso shots pulled from my Silvia with the ones from their commercial La Marzocco and... you couldn't tell the difference in a blind test (of course the guy was operating both machines, so he knew what he was doing...)
5 espressos and a gallon of steamed milk? What would the italians say about that? LOL
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu May 3, 2012, 11:24am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
Bill I am not going to go point by point with you, there is no need. I both drink straight espresso AND enjoy milk drinks, if that is some how an earth shaking thing to you, well, you need to learn to deal with it.
I have used machines from steam toys to high tech commercial double boilers, I can tell you for a fact that Sylvia is a starter machine. If that gores your ox,you need to learn to deal with it.
Sylvia is finicky BECAUSE it has faults, just because you learn to work around them, that does not improve the quality of the machine. If you do not like this fact, you need to learn to deal with it.
I have never attacked you, nor have I ever proclaimed myself to be an expert but I have done a LOT of things with a LOT of different equipment and I can spot design flaws when I see them. Sylvia clearly falls short of anything other than a starter machine, better than a steam toy for sure but not nearly to the level of an Alexia, which IS a good single boiler machine.
In the future, please refrain from personal attacks, I did not do it to you, it is in violation of the boards rules and it only makes you look small to the rest of the world.
EDIT: After thinking about it a bit, Sylvia, is firmly in the consumer class and not starter. Not to a prosumer level by any means though.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri May 4, 2012, 5:33am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
Rodrigo
Telling the truth about something does not mandate "hate" for whatever you are talking about. I DO own a sylvia and as a consumer machine it is solid,
(my long time use of better equipment has caused me to tend to see nearly all SBDU machines as starter gear, this is in fact not true, there are several solid SBDU machines that fall into the consumer class of gear. As a straight shot machine Sylvia is OK, not outstanding but OK none the less, its steaming, while stronger than true starter machines, is still weak VS prosumer and up machines)
it is not however the be all - end all machine that some seem to think it is.
I don't know where you got 5 espresso shots and a gallon of milk from but if you read my posts, I both drink straight shots then for an hour long drive to work (you can't make a double shot of espresso last for an hour no matter how much you like it straight) I add 3 doubles to 12 oz milk, that is a 1/2 ratio, below a cap and above a latte in weight of espresso to milk.
Don't judge the board by this thread, it is atypical of most people here and if you hang around, you will find lots of good talk, lots of good ideas, lots of help and when you are comfortable, you will get the chance to help lots of good people.
Enjoy!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,805 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri May 4, 2012, 8:06am Subject: Re: What doe you set your PID at on Miss Silvia?
I agree, Rodrigo. Most of the people here are very nice and most emphasize that what they are posting is their opinion or their own experience. In fact, I don't think anyone here makes more of an effort than Wayne (calblacksmith) to emphasize in his/her posts that he is posting his expereicnes and opinions. I also don't think most of the frequent posters here "hate" the Miss Silvia. Most of the ones who say it's overpriced do so because they'd be willing to buy a used machine in the next class up, and they can get it for the same price as a new Silvia. Me, I think of the Silvia as the ultimate entry level machine...heck I owned two of them for a while (one in the house and one in the apartment). For some people, it's all they'll ever need or want.
I, too took a barista training class. I took mine with two-time US Champion, Heather Perry. My class had 5 people in it. We went through 8 pounds of coffee and 10 gallons of milk. Heather did not bash the Silvia, but she did ask me if I planned to upgrade and what machines I would consider. You know, you can drive a lot of different cars and some might be great and get you where you want when you want, and keep you perfectly happy, but that doesn't mean there isn't room to upgrade.
I do agree the Silvis is cabable of making great drinks, whether straight espresso or espresso based milk drinks. However, as many have pointed out numerous times, it has limitations. I do make espresso based milk drinks at home for guests when we entertain, and I have to say, I find it quite bothersome to have wait for temperature restabilization or boiler temperature changes when making drinks for 8-10 people in a session. It has been pointed out many times that this can be "problematic" as some guests are finishing their drinks or letting them get cold while others are still waiting to get theirs. Not to mention refilling the reservoir once or twice in a session. I don't care how much someone loves their Silvia, if you entertain like we do at my house, that is a reality you have to deal with...unless...you get a more capable machine.
Fortunately for Bill, I'm not a moderator here. Many of his comments are uncalled for as he attacks not only Wayne, but many others, with false accusations.
It really doesn't matter what others use. The coffee you use and what you're getting in the cup are what matters. I use 218 at the moment but that's irrelevant unless you're using the same beans. Play with the temps and see what works best for you. It's somewhat similar to dialing in your grinder. IIRC the rule of thumb is too hot = bitter and too cold = sour.
It's a bit of a subjective matter. Some start with $60 machines. Some start with $1,500 (or more) machines. But looking at the range of espresso machines out there, Silvia is at the high end of the starter range. That's why it's referred to as a starter machine. It's also why Silvia is commonly regarded as overpriced. Its price premium does not manifest itself in the cup to many whereas a comparable price difference applied to the grinder can make a significant difference in the cup. Silvia's a machine that people typically start out with and upgrade from -- especially if they produce more than one milk drink at a time given how single boiler machines work. It's rarely the destination and is more often the start of the journey for coffee geeks.
rodraguirre Said:
I'm new here, and I never imagined there would be such a thing as "Silvia haters"...
There are not. Well, there are but the ones that Bill refers to are far from Silvia haters. Critics, yes. As always, consider the source. Let's keep this on topic. There are plenty of existing threads if people really want to revisit Bill's trolling.
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