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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Sat May 19, 2012, 1:04pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

yeah i'm pretty sure you're right.  if the rubber is flexible enough and big enough, it'll probably just bend around the wall of the basket.  might need something that is food grade with high temp resistance. maybe food grade silicone rubber.

i dont want inner tube rubber tasting frothed milk.  :P
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Sat May 19, 2012, 1:14pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

haha or just google 53mm blind basket

looks like they're about 10 bucks.  The San Marco and La Spaziale 53mm should probably fit fine.
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wsikes
Senior Member
wsikes
Joined: 3 Oct 2011
Posts: 396
Location: West Virginia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Promac MD-64 AT
Drip: Bunn
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Sat May 19, 2012, 1:17pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

LOL... didn't know that 53mm blind baskets even existed.  You're probably right about the rubber causing a taste... not sure... but I'm thinking all you would need is a plug to cover the bottom of the basket.

 
Bill
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Frost
Senior Member
Frost
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,072
Location: Sierra
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Venus
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Roaster: Poppery I w/variac, MET, BT
Posted Sat May 19, 2012, 5:52pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

FWIW, the spring in my Gaggia Espresso 'boiler valve' would hold about 2 bar of steam pressure, and about 2.5 bar when the pump was full on with no portafilter/puck. I had a couple of those valves and they both measured about the same.
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Sat May 19, 2012, 5:55pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

ah...that's somewhat reassuring.  it would be nice to be able to get water to flow by about 3psi.  i guess i'll just have to play with the spring pressure.   hmm wonder if there is a shim i can insert so i dont have to buy a bunch of springs and test different lengths

*thoughts of measuring internal diameter of the valve holder and finding  tiny washers to increase and decrease heights with a cut spring*
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Sashas
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Joined: 2 Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Wed May 23, 2012, 4:28pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

Just connected 600w Leviton dimmer (serial, didn't connect ground wire) Gaggia Baby Primavera and it works great while the boiler is steady on or off. With PID correcting the temperature, pump speed is not stabile on lower settings. Anyone experienced something similar?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,997
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed May 23, 2012, 4:44pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

I am not using the dimmer, but have a PID.  The PID cycles the boiler quickly and is on and off frequently, as I am sure you know.  The boiler uses much of the available current, leaving the pump without, more noticeable at low pump setting.  I can hear pump changes as the PID cycles the boiler on, but I am using the PID to raise the temperature of the brew water by turning on the boiler with the brew switch, not the PID function but alarm function of the PID.  That means more "on" time of the boiler, and a definite pump change.  Hope that made sense.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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AndyPanda
Senior Member
AndyPanda
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 769
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Olympia Cremina, Various...
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Fiorenzato,...
Vac Pot: vintage Corey
Drip: AeroPress
Roaster: BreadMachine/HeatGun
Posted Thu May 24, 2012, 8:27am
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

I don't have a PID (yet - thinking of ordering one) ... but, yes, I notice that the sound of the pump drops slightly when the heater kicks on.  For my machine with a 3-way solenoid valve, this makes very little difference in flow/pressure - it is only a slight drop in pump output.  

But for machines without the 3-way - I will again state that you will see much larger swings in flow/pressure at the brew head for small changes in pump power.

The PID will be cycling the heat on/off through the shot so you will hear the pump change in power as the boiler sucks all the current for a second here and there.

In my setup, I get my boiler to the right temp (I have a thermocouple mounted digital thermometer showing me the boiler temp) and give it a couple of seconds head start (kick on the heat for 2-4 seconds) just before I start the shot to compensate for the rush of cool water that is about to enter the boiler.  My heater doesn't kick on during the shot so for me it's a non-issue anyway.
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tracerbullet
Senior Member
tracerbullet
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 168
Location: Saint Paul
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:44am
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

I have a dimmer but haven't gotten around to this yet. Do you recall which wire you stuck the dimmer in with?

I know that with pneumatics, placing a flow restriction before or after something you want to slow down changes the way it works. Not sure about this - I'm guessing electrical current flow is current flow and it doesn't matter, but figured I'd ask. Light bulbs don't care about polarity or much else - does a vibe pump?

I suppose that once I have it apart it's easy to stick the dimmer in at different points and just find out, but again - figured I'd ask. Thanks!
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AndyPanda
Senior Member
AndyPanda
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 769
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Olympia Cremina, Various...
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Fiorenzato,...
Vac Pot: vintage Corey
Drip: AeroPress
Roaster: BreadMachine/HeatGun
Posted Mon Jun 11, 2012, 1:23pm
Subject: Re: pressure profiling with vibe pump
 

The dimmer I used has two wires that matter and a ground wire that doesn't really matter.  The two wires go "in series" with the pump.  So it doesn't matter which direction (polarity) it goes (because this is AC not DC) as long as it is in series.  The pump works on AC current, not DC, so there is no polarity -  though at the risk of confusing you, there is a Diode inside the pump which converts that AC to DC pulses (60 per second) which gives the vibe pump it's motion.  The older Ulka pumps (I have one on my very old Gaggia OWC) had an external diode that also goes in series - oddly, it doesn't matter which direction you put the diode - what matters is that it causes pulses rather than a smooth, AC sine wave to the coil ... it doesn't seem to matter which polarity the coil gets since it is pulling a ferrous slug that is not magnetized with any polarity ... it simply pulls and releases the moving slug and doesn't care which polarity the magnet has. Yeah, I was afraid that would just confuse and pollute the discussion.

But the newer Invensys and Ulka pumps that I have seen all have the diode hidden away inside where you can't see it.  You have AC going to the pump through two wires ... it doesn't matter which of the two you splice the dimmer into ... just pick one and put the dimmer between the one leg of AC and the pump ... the other leg of the AC to the pump is left alone.

AC --------------------------PUMP
AC --------Dimmer---------PUMP
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