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Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Moving to the...  
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SamTonin
Senior Member
SamTonin
Joined: 4 Feb 2009
Posts: 29
Location: Sydney, Australia
Expertise: Professional
Posted Fri May 25, 2012, 4:32pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

This grinder is best suited for home use, grinding by weight, in and out, 7-21 grams at a time, for a maximum weight of around 50g. After that, I suggest you let it cool, as the grinds will become hot.

Many have suggested the Vario, which is a pretty great grinder, and although operation may be easier, the results are not as good for the drip as the newest designed upper burr found in the Virtuoso 586 which has a conical burr set. Just because its cheap, doesn't mean it's of poor quality (even though it usually does).

There are some grind size charts here that may help you: http://marco.ie/uberproject/?p=725

 
My micro-roastery is up and running, be sure to check it out! www.beanofatree.com.au
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nebber
Senior Member


Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Newton, MA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 11:44am
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

Sorry to keep this going - but haven't pulled final trigger yet.

As of now, I think I going with Veratza Preciso grinder.

What I want to know is: what do I lose going with Rancillo Sylvia V3 vs Breville dual broiler? I've watched the Seattle Gear video with the head to head on these machines (although the Sylvia was modded with a PID controller. Vidwo didn't really say much. Specifically, quality/toughness of machine, maitenance costs, consistency, etc.

Is there more to the double boiler than the ability to do multiple shots quickly?

Ben
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TheSunInsideYou
Senior Member
TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 12:19pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

Temperature control and stability is a big one. Being able to steam and pull shots at the same time. The BDB is going to be less finicky and more consistent, without needing to be familiar with the machine. There are a lot more programmable options with the BDB, like the programmable pre-infusion and pressure.

-Dave-
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,052
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 1:01pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

The BDB has a lot of nice bells and whistles on it.  There are lots of people very happy with BDB machine right now.  Time will tell what will happen when they are all out of warranty. There is a wait and see how well this model performs over the long haul attitude from people that have seen junk machines sold under that brand name.  If you are willing to risk your money then it is got a lot of nice features on it.  I did was not willing to go there, for the money of the high end one I was looking at I wanted a long term machine heavy duty machine and the BDB did not feel like that to me.  I have been burned on machines that are great under warranty but when they break they are considered trash. The manufacturers make them to be disposable not to be serviced for years.  (not talking espresso just general manufacturer's mindset to build stuff not to be serviced or last one day after warranty)  

I went old school, light commercial because I knew it could be serviced and was built to provide years of service.  And I wanted lots and lots of steam power.  I must admit the light steam of the BDB is easier for me to make microfoam on.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

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dagoat
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 341
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: HG-One, baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
Drip: manual
Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

Nebber, mate, you're nuts if you get a Silvia in 2012.  True that is of the old skool robust construction that you will probably be able keep it running forever.  But that is worthless if even Silvia experts cannot make great shots time after time EVEN with a PID.  It's not a win, for the money even though it's cheaper than the BDB.  ON EDIT: An anvil is a more durable flotation device than an inner tube--but it wouldn't be my first choice if I were drowning.


Coffeenoobie Said:

Time will tell what will happen when they are all out of warranty. There is a wait and see how well this model performs over the long haul attitude from people that have seen junk machines sold under that brand name.

Posted May 27, 2012 link

This is absolutely true.  BUT what has been proven and is no longer up for debate is that there is basically no limit to how well this can make espresso, save for manual pressure profiling capability, like the $6500-up-class of single groups.  And even at that, instrumented testing has shown that the BDB is at LEAST as temperature-stable as the those saturated group machines.  IOW, this thing has mind-blowing capability for the price.  Just unreal.  

But again, there is that wildcard about how long it will last.  I know you have to take with a grain of salt what the horse says from his own mouth, but Phil McKnight of Breville, (a pro barista that they headhunted only a couple-three years ago, not a lifelong Breville shill), says the BDB's have been tested repeatedly to a mean 14,500 shots without failure.  Since I'm one of the ones who took the risk, my fingers are crossed for that kind of durability.  If I can get that, whereupon my BDB drops dead, then my $1200 ($839 at the WS 30% off sale), will have been well spent.

-Peter
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TheSunInsideYou
Senior Member
TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 4:22pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

dagoat Said:

Nebber, mate, you're nuts if you get a Silvia in 2012.  True that is of the old skool robust construction that you will probably be able keep it running forever.  But that is worthless if even Silvia experts cannot make great shots time after time EVEN with a PID.  It's not a win, for the money even though it's cheaper than the BDB.  An anvil will last longer as a floatation device than a air-filled float, but it will not be as good for flotation.

This is absolutely true.  BUT what has been proven and is no longer up for debate is that there is basically no limit to how well this can make espresso, save for manual pressure profiling capability, like the $6500-up-class of single groups.  And even at that, instrumented testing has shown that the BDB is at LEAST as temperature-stable as the those saturated group machines.  IOW, this thing has mind-blowing capability for the price.  Just unreal.  

But again, there is that wildcard about how long it will last.  I know you have to take with a grain of salt what the horse says from his own mouth, but Phil McKnight of Breville, (a pro barista that they headhunted only a couple-three years ago, not a lifelong Breville shill), says the BDB's have been tested repeatedly to a mean 14,500 shots without failure.  Since I'm one of the ones who took the risk, my fingers are crossed for that kind of durability.  If I can get that, whereupon my BDB drops dead, then my $1200 ($839 at the WS 30% off sale), will have been well spent.

-Peter

Posted May 27, 2012 link

+1 Thanks for being able to explain things much better than I could.
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frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 4:37pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

SamTonin Said:

As for the grinder, the new Baratza Encore is the only way to go. With its new upper burr and gearbox design, espresso is ready to grind out of the box..

Posted May 24, 2012 link

SamTonin Said:

All Baratza grinders can be easily modified to be stepless.

Posted May 25, 2012 link

ok...so is it ready out of the box?  or only after the modification?  

also, some people do not want to have to take additional steps and modify their machines to get adequate results.  

The title of the original thread is "Moving to the bigger leagues...".  A modified low end baratza really doesnt seem synonymous with that, to me.
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nebber
Senior Member


Joined: 23 May 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Newton, MA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 6:44pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

Thanks everyone. It's settled - I am going with breville dual broiler and the veratza preciso.

Now I just have to get my taxes filed so my wife will let me buy these.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will check back in in a month or so after living with the machine for a bit.

Ben
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TheSunInsideYou
Senior Member
TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 6:54pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

Congrats Ben! And it's the Breville Dual Boiler and the Baratza Preciso. But I'm sure you'd figure that out when you went to order it. Haha.

Welcome to the Club!
-Dave-
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JJC
Senior Member
JJC
Joined: 2 Apr 2012
Posts: 57
Location: Santa Barbara
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville 900Xl, Saeco...
Grinder: Compak K3
Roaster: Behmor, Nesco
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 7:02pm
Subject: Re: Moving to the bigger leagues, suggestions welcome
 

Congratulations Ben!

And great post Peter.
Fortunately I wasn't drinking anything when I read the anvil comment.

Jim
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