Frkt Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2012 Posts: 2 Location: Denmark Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat May 26, 2012, 10:58pm Subject: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
I want to upgrade from a La Pavoni Professional to a semi automatic machine....
Im considering both breville dual boiler or breville barista Express. I have an Ascaso grinder... But I dont know what would be the Best bue for me...
I have read in some reviews that the milk steamer is a bit slow on both breville machines... Does anybody know how slow compared to La Pavoni? We mostly drink cafe lattes. I cant deside wether to spend that extra money on the dual boiler or if i Will be happy wirh the barista Express?
Posted Sat May 26, 2012, 11:44pm Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
I would suggest upgrading your grinder instead of or in addition to your machine upgrade. The BDB is a great machine, that I have nothing bad to say about, but it will be limited by your grinder.
Not sure I'd call the Barista Express an upgrade from a La Pavoni. What made you narrow it down to these two models? It would help to understand your needs/wants/other critieria/etc.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue May 29, 2012, 5:50am Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
The BDB MIGHT be OK but the jury is still out. It is a VERY new machine from a manufacturer who has a VERY bad record for quality in the past. There are several people here who have the BDB and like them but MY money would not be used as a Beta tester. I am giving the machine a few years to see how it works out in the long run before I can give advice one way or the other. YMMV.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Tue May 29, 2012, 6:24am Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
calblacksmith Said:
The BDB MIGHT be OK but the jury is still out. It is a VERY new machine from a manufacturer who has a VERY bad record for quality in the past. There are several people here who have the BDB and like them but MY money would not be used as a Beta tester. I am giving the machine a few years to see how it works out in the long run before I can give advice one way or the other. YMMV.
The thing is, this is a misleading statement. The only thing that is up in the air is the longevity of the equipment, not the quality of the product it produces. That's already been shown. If the longevity proves even average, this machine is an absolute steal and NOTHING comes close it's bang for your buck. To quote from another topic:
dagoat Said:
what has been proven and is no longer up for debate is that there is basically no limit to how well this can make espresso, save for manual pressure profiling capability, like the $6500-up-class of single groups. And even at that, instrumented testing has shown that the BDB is at LEAST as temperature-stable as the those saturated group machines. IOW, this thing has mind-blowing capability for the price. Just unreal.
But again, there is that wildcard about how long it will last. I know you have to take with a grain of salt what the horse says from his own mouth, but Phil McKnight of Breville, (a pro barista that they headhunted only a couple-three years ago, not a lifelong Breville shill), says the BDB's have been tested repeatedly to a mean 14,500 shots without failure. Since I'm one of the ones who took the risk, my fingers are crossed for that kind of durability. If I can get that, whereupon my BDB drops dead, then my $1200 ($839 at the WS 30% off sale), will have been well spent.
Stuart Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2012 Posts: 113 Location: TX Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: Air Crazy popper
Posted Tue May 29, 2012, 7:43am Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
I believe Calblacksmith is only saying that the BDB has been "in the wild" for such a short time, it's hard to know what (if any) long-term issues might arise. I've read that the development team put a prototype through something like 150,000 brew cycles (which, if I do my math right, amounts to around 180 years' use at 2 shots/day; or 50 years use at 7 shots a day)(approximations, OK?)
But 150,000 laboratory cycles in a 3-month period doesn't examine the effects of time on the plastics used in construction (pump, OPV, internal piping, frame). It doesn't mimic the effects of variations in the use of the machine; say, the user who runs a cleaning cycle every week instead of every 200 shots. The user who finds his favorite blend tastes best at a program temperature of 208F, not 200F. Or even the consequences (if there are any) of running with an originally-set OPV and pulling shots at 11-13 bar for three years.
Now. To the OP's point; the BDB is in a different league than the Barista Express, from my viewpoint. The BDB doesn't have a built-in grinder, so it is, by default, "less capable" in that regard. But while most of the commentary I've read about the Barista Express has been centered on complaints about the grinder: low capacity, tendency to clog; failure to function or inconsistent performance.
I watched a demonstration of a Barista Express at Williams-Sonoma. That's the extent of my experience, and one reason I didn't post when the question first came up. It appeared easy to use and seems reasonably well-made for a consumer appliance. But it's made to a price point considerably below that of the BDB, which itself remains a consumer appliance.
I think that's the chief point that raises debate. The BDB is priced in a range that approaches the "prosumer" class of machines; devices made to run on 110V current, equipped with in-machine water reservoirs (and, frequently, vibratory pumps), but built like commercial machines (heavy frames, large boilers, metal water lines). The BDB is a consumer appliance. It's a very capable consumer appliance, IMP, but it doesn't have many of these construction elements. Some users accustomed to seeing them in machines at this price point find their absence troubling. When investing a thousand Euros, one wants some assurance that it will last. (I've gotten the impression that some users want assurance that it'll last twenty years. Which is fine, but I find that somewhat at odds with the tendency of regular users of this forum to upgrade, upgrade, upgrade.)
I began considering a Real Espresso Machine back in November of last year. I thought that included the Breville Barista Express. But after research and consideration, I upped my budget (significantly) and bought a BDB and a Vario. From a price point, they're not in the same ball park. From a design standpoint, they may not even be playing the same game.
Posted Tue May 29, 2012, 8:02am Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
Stuart Said:
I believe Calblacksmith is only saying that the BDB has been "in the wild" for such a short time, it's hard to know what (if any) long-term issues might arise.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue May 29, 2012, 9:45am Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
I don't think it is misleading. Until it is proven in the field, you are basically Beta testing. You may not agree with the wording but there is a sound reason that in the car world, you NEVER buy the first model of a new series, the bugs still need to get worked out.
It positively checks all the wow boxes but it is still a roll of the dice as to how long it will last, not to mention the several questionable design choices made as to being able to service it yourself etc.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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