The first model of the new series can be said about a lot of machines, including the gs3. And I don't think we'd disagree that the gs3 is not a risky buy. Which brings us back to your original point, that Breville has a bad reputation in the espresso world, which is fair. And to be even more fair, the BDB did come with some bugs on the first shipment (the OPV setting being the major one). I don't know that that makes this machine a new model in the series, but you're not giving enough credit to the fact that since the original issues, there have been no major or consistent issues with a machine that is providing major and consistent results.
And yes, Breville did make it so that it's not descale-able, but they also built in the convenience of only needing to descale every 3 years or so.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 6,882 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue May 29, 2012, 1:11pm Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
Dave, I am not trying to talk anyone into or out of anything. I do not care where someone spends their money. I don't care if they like milk drinks or not. I don't care if someone is a straight shot person or not.
There is a reason I avoid the BDB owners thread, not wanting to get into a big discussion on the BDB is high on the list of why I don't go there.
If someone asks about it AWAY from that thread, I am going to give an honest opinion of what I think about that machine. It is a consumer grade machine, designed to a price point with lots of consessions to design made to keep the price point.
It is made by a manufacturer who is famous for low quality. I am taking a wait and see posture about the machine. I really hope it does well but at this point in time, I can not give it one let alone two thumbs up for purchase.
As long as the buyer knows what they are getting into, I feel my job is done and may the espresso winds of fortune gently carry them to espresso rapture.
If someone chooses to buy the machine, if their eyes are open going into the purchase, more power to them and I hope their purchase lives up to all they hoped it would and that it out lives them, I harbor no ill will to anyone.
I have owned and used lots of machines. I am on the list for the BDB road show, I hope it changes my mind. Lets be clear though. The BDB is NO GS3 and it never will be, regardless of who designed it and who raves about it.
My posting to this thread, unless more is asked for from me, is done. I think my point has been made and I can sleep easy knowing that someone has gone into this with their eyes wide open regardless of which way they go.
Dave, may peace be with you and may the Crema on your shot always be deep.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,847 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue May 29, 2012, 3:35pm Subject: Re: Breville dual boiler vs the barista express
I think that's the chief point that raises debate. The BDB is priced in a range that approaches the "prosumer" class of machines; devices made to run on 110V current, equipped with in-machine water reservoirs (and, frequently, vibratory pumps), but built like commercial machines (heavy frames, large boilers, metal water lines). The BDB is a consumer appliance. It's a very capable consumer appliance, IMP, but it doesn't have many of these construction elements. Some users accustomed to seeing them in machines at this price point find their absence troubling. When investing a thousand Euros, one wants some assurance that it will last. (I've gotten the impression that some users want assurance that it'll last twenty years. Which is fine, but I find that somewhat at odds with the tendency of regular users of this forum to upgrade, upgrade, upgrade.)
This is one of my big objections to a BDB and first noticed by my husband when he looked at the BDB (and he is not the coffeegeek in the house). I don't plan to upgrade any time soon but my Oscar will hold it's value - assuming I take good care of it, a BDB might not. A lot of the resale value of my machine is it is designed to last forever if serviced. I am in the same boat with my grinder. If I had gotten a commercial Super Jolly I could sell it for what I bought it for a few years from now, that probably will not be true for my Baratza Vario. (but it is not over 1k as the BDB is so I feel I am not risking as much) Time will tell if that grinder will last as long as my espresso machine. I am taking a risk, but it is an informed risk and I believe that most of the BDB doubters feel the same as me and Calbacksmith. These are the risks and decide if this is where you think you should spend your money.
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.
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