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Reasons for fast shots other than grinder {Resolved, post#40}
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Gig103
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 225
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: French press!
Posted Fri Jun 1, 2012, 9:19am
Subject: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder {Resolved, post#40}
 

Hey all,

You've probably seen my other thread about not getting a good shot from my CC1 w/ multiple Precisos that wouldn't go fine enough. Well now I have a Vario and I have it at 1-macro, E/F-micro, and I'm still getting 10-12sec gushers. What worries me is that I asked Baratza to test my grinder with their machine before shipping it, and I was told they got a good shot at 1-macro, and approximately W-micro.

How could my machine be so much pickier than theirs? I'm starting to wonder if my CC1's OPV is not set correctly so too much pressure is going through the puck? Is this possible? Could it be something else? I pulled out the Vario's "oil can" tool and get the laboring sound where I should.  My beans are almost to the 2-week mark, FWIW.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,140
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:16am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

Even at a higher pressure on my Oscar I can get proper times and extraction, I probably do grind finer then if the machine was at a max of 9.5 bar. So other then grind fineness there is dose and poor distribution that can result in quicker times. I have had a Vario for a few years now and it is very capable in giving you the grins you need no matter how old the beans are as long as it is calibrated to grind fine enough.
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chasemonster
Senior Member
chasemonster
Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 364
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Audrey
Grinder: Hario Mini Mill
Drip: V60
Posted Fri Jun 1, 2012, 2:45pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

Can you grind up 18 grams of beans fine enough to choke your CC1?
That's what I would suggest you try.
Keep adjusting your grinder finer and finer until no espresso comes through even after 8 to 10 seconds.
Then adjust backwards from there.
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Gig103
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 225
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: French press!
Posted Sat Jun 2, 2012, 2:36pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

I have yet to choke my machine, even after calibrating it multiple times. This time I thought it was going to choke, and then it gave me a 32ish second double. But that is all the way down on its finest setting.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Jun 2, 2012, 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

Gig103 Said:

This time I thought it was going to choke, and then it gave me a 32ish second double. But that is all the way down on its finest setting.

Posted June 2, 2012 link

The way that is stated makes me wonder if the pull started slow and then sped up.  Is the flow fairly even?  Could you be getting blow through in part of the puck, fracturing it.  Is your distribution ok?  What is the pressure of your machine?  Having had high pressure and then lowering it to about 9 bar, my machine became more tolerant of grind, and took a slightly coarser grind than prior.  I probably am not suggesting anything new, but maybe good for you to re-state it all to get more input.  I have followed most of your trials/threads as I am fairly new with the Preciso and have a recent machine change.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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Gig103
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 225
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: French press!
Posted Sat Jun 2, 2012, 6:23pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

I do not know what pressure my machine is set at. Baratza and SCG both have said the machine is not likely the culprit, despite speaking to different people after different tests I've run. I seem to be the only one who was unable to use the latest-generation Preciso, and now am having trouble with the Vario, which is why I'm so troubled and ready to give up.

Today when I *thought* it was going to choke, it sounded like when I backflush and then it started to dribble out (unevenly at that). That means I could back down and probably get a 25 second shot, but I am still not sure I should be at approximately 1-C for a proper shot - no room to play with different coffees or freshness.

I made another video that shows what my current calibration sounds like. Youtube - Click here. It seems "correct" to me but before I tighten it more if people think I should.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Jun 2, 2012, 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

I do not remember if you mentioned trying a bottomless PF to check how even the flow is.  I do not have one, so I cannot further comment, but a thought.

Most manufactures think that the equipment is not the problem.  If not, that only leaves you and technique.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,140
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Jun 3, 2012, 6:09am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

The calibration looks good in your video however if you can't choke the machine I would try a bit finer still. I keep mine calibrated slightly finer then Baratza recommends, this keeps my espresso grinding always on the second macro down for all my grinding and never go to the finest macro setting.
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OB
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Apr 2012
Posts: 26
Location: Pace, Florida
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Rancillo Silvia V3, w/PID
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Black and Decker
Roaster: Fresh roast +8
Posted Sun Jun 3, 2012, 6:25am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

My Vario is set from the factory and gives me a 20 second pull on my Silvia with a setting of 1 and D.  This is for 4 week rested coffee.  On fresher coffee I have to back it off a little to E, F or G.  I'm happy with my Vario.  I did have to send the 1st one back as it was un-reliable.
Good luck with your search.
OB
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chasemonster
Senior Member
chasemonster
Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 364
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Audrey
Grinder: Hario Mini Mill
Drip: V60
Posted Sun Jun 3, 2012, 6:54am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

Here's what I would try:
Get out your "oil can" tool and have it ready to use.
Turn your grinder on and lower the right lever down one notch from the top, and move the left lever to the middle/center.
Now, leave the levers alone and insert the adjustment tool into the slot, and with the grinder running start turning the adjustment tool (I believe clockwise) until IT makes the motor labor.
And experiment a little turning the tool clockwise and counter clockwise until you feel the motor is laboring at a comfortable sound.
Now the grinder should be set properly with plenty of room left for adjustment using the actual levers.

NOTE: There is also another calibration screw, hidden under a rubber plug (right next to where you insert the adjustment tool) and this could be the culprit.
See this post here: http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/grinders/558292#558292
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