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Reasons for fast shots other than grinder {Resolved, post#40}
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Reasons for fast...  
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cappuccinoboy
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 798
Location: MILANO
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully...
Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Mon Jun 4, 2012, 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

GrantT Said:

I freeze both fresh-roasted and "stale" Italian espressos purchased from the local Italian market, and get excellent results with both as long I use them within a day or two.  I freeze in very small batches so I remove at most 1-2 days worth.

............. behaving as designed.

G

Posted June 4, 2012 link

If you get excellent results,  your "stale" Italian coffee after all is not stale at all at time of freezing, it could be that industrial packaging is in fact working......(just for the unrepentant "Stale, period!" Geeks...)
Ciao, Pietro
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SteveJames
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Feb 2012
Posts: 8
Location: Wyoming
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

Mike,

If you have not done so already, try what Mark "naimnut"has suggested.  You can always readjust back to something else if you get worried about hurting the burrs, but based on all of the posts I have read on your thread, along with my last 3 months of beginner experience using Alex II and Vario combo, with Black Pearl and Redbird coffees..., seems that you need to get finer than you have so far.

Steve
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clumeng
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vivaldi II, 67 Cremina
Grinder: Vario, Maestro, Pharos
Vac Pot: Aeropress
Drip: Technivorm, Chemex
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 8:08am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

What do the grounds feel like out of the grinder?  You should be able to get it close to powdered sugar which will choke the machine especially with that dose.  

I'd try fresh roasted just in case there was a freezing/thaw issue.
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Gig103
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: French press!
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 9:47am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

clumeng Said:

What do the grounds feel like out of the grinder?  You should be able to get it close to powdered sugar which will choke the machine especially with that dose.  

I'd try fresh roasted just in case there was a freezing/thaw issue.

Posted June 6, 2012 link

It's very powdery, so much that it gets into my fingerprints, but still isn't choking the machine :(
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,022
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 10:22am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

What is the pressure set at on the machine?  Cheap guage and connector to the PF should answer that, unless there is not a simple way to connect a guage to the PF.  Perhaps it is set perfectly, but eliminate that variable if you can.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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RossG
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Sep 2011
Posts: 17
Location: Sacramento, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Giotto Premium Plus V2
Grinder: Virtuoso Preciso, Hario...
Drip: Bodum, Clever
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 11:27am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

I doubt its the grinder, I had no problem choking my Silvia with my Preciso and if the coffee is coming out fine enough to stain your hands its fine enough to make espresso.

Some other variables:
Coffee: try some fresh, never frozen, coffee. Check the roast date, dont use beans past 15 days, store them in a paper bag or someplace where they can breathe, do not freeze or refrigerate.

Dose: weigh your grounds. I would run a couple grams of beans through your machine and toss the grounds just to make sure you arent using any stale grounds from the last time you used the grinder.

Distrubution: wdt. Doesn't have to be fancy. Use a funnel (I use a yogurt container with the bottom cut off), get the grounds in the portfailter, use a needle or toothpick or something to stir the grounds to break up clumps. I like to tap the pf on my table to get the grounds to settle before I take out the funnel to tamp.

Tamp: don't worry so much about this. Just make sure you arent putting too much pressure on any one part of the puck. Don't tap the pf with the tamper as it can lead to cracks/channeling.

Temp: use the styrofoam cup/instant read thermometer method to measure your temperature at the grouphead.

As far as pressure, I don't really know how to help you. I know you said Baratza and SCG said the machine is working fine, but that doesn't actually mean anything until they use the machine themselves.

For what it's worth: I have a Rocket Giotto Premium Plus V2 on the way (yay) and expect that the preciso will be able to handle it (oh, I so hope it can handle it).
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dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Thu Jun 7, 2012, 9:04am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

It sounds like an underdosing, pressure or channelling issue to me.  

How much coffee are you using for a double?  Is the coffee clumpy (also, what kind of roast level is it at? just for reference)?  Are you using WDT or similar?

Is there anyway to see if water is being returned to the reservoir from the OPV on a CC1?  On my Gaggia I can watch the water returning and know that the OPV has opened.
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Gig103
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: French press!
Posted Thu Jun 7, 2012, 12:49pm
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

dyqik Said:

It sounds like an underdosing, pressure or channelling issue to me.  

How much coffee are you using for a double?  Is the coffee clumpy (also, what kind of roast level is it at? just for reference)?  Are you using WDT or similar?

Is there anyway to see if water is being returned to the reservoir from the OPV on a CC1?  On my Gaggia I can watch the water returning and know that the OPV has opened.

Posted June 7, 2012 link

So, these were all good ideas, I checked channeling with a bottomless portafilter and am not having any issues there. I weighed the dose as high as 20g. And as for pressure, last night I checked the OPV return tube and it is returning water with a blind filter, which means the valve is working. I can't test if it's set too high, but at least I know it isn't blasting away at 12bar like it would have with a defective OPV.

I'm working on getting some fresh roasted coffee that has never been frozen to see if the moisture content has varied from freezing, because the Vario on its finest still doesn't choke my machine. At home I defrosted a third variety and am still not choking my CC1, although the shots are closer to 20 seconds than the 12 I was getting.
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Gig103
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: French press!
Posted Fri Jun 8, 2012, 9:57am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

While I wait on fresh coffee, this morning I increased preinfusion and it finally choked the machine and I backed down to 1G. Maybe freezing the coffee, while keeping it "fresh" has adjusted the moisture content and it needed more time to expand? Not that I think 1G is normal, it's still really fine, but it did help with the coffee.
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naimnut
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Posts: 66
Location: Seattle area
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Braun Aeromaster
Posted Fri Jun 8, 2012, 11:30am
Subject: Re: Reasons for fast shots other than grinder
 

Gig103 Said:

So...the Vario on its finest still doesn't choke my machine. ...

Posted June 7, 2012 link

Sounds to me like you might need to tighten up the vario with your hex wrench some more.
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