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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rancilio problem  
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gregbera
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 4
Location: New York
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:16pm
Subject: Rancilio problem
 

The machine is new. It is Machine is not dispensing coffee. If the portafilter is empty, hot water comes thru. But once it is filled with coffee nothing comes for several seconds, then all I get are a few slow drips. Steam wand seems to be working fine.
Grinder is Vario.
Thank you for help.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:24pm
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

Welcome to CG.  The Vario is capable of grinding fine enough to choke Silvia.  Try a bit coarser grind.  If no luck there, time the water out of the blank PF for say 10 seconds, or more, and then measure the amount of water.  That gives an unloaded flow rate, likely normal, but a place to start.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,224
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012, 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

^ +1

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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gregbera
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 4
Location: New York
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 4:27am
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

We got 95mL of clear water in 10 seconds. Secondly I set the coffee grinder to the most coarse setting. Afterwards I attempted to make espresso without the creamer and only 25 mL came out this time.
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tracerbullet
Senior Member
tracerbullet
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 168
Location: Saint Paul
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 5:32am
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

95ml (a little over 3 oz) sounds like decent flow in that time frame. Espresso machines have strong pumps but not particularly high flow pumps, as it's not needed. I haven't timed the flow of flow in my own machine (Gaggia) but in lots of playing around and modifying it and letting water run, that feels like about what I'd get.

25ml is a little less than an ounce, but at least you're on to something with the grind change. How long did it take to get that amount?

One other variable for you is your tamp pressure - it's not a huge one but it's there. Are you mashing the bejeezus out of it or barely touching it? See if your flow rate changes if you just barely touch it.

Also, even on the coursest setting, the grind may still be too fine. Look around here and you'll see people trying to... calibrate may be the right word... their Baratza branded grinders. I cant' say which ones and don't want to imply they all have problems, but as a non-owner it feels like I see that name a lot here with owners solving problems with them. Have a look and maybe one of the threads will apply to you as well?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 8:19am
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

gregbera Said:

We got 95mL of clear water in 10 seconds. Secondly I set the coffee grinder to the most coarse setting. Afterwards I attempted to make espresso without the creamer and only 25 mL came out this time.

Posted June 14, 2012 link

That is 95 x 6 = 570 ml/min.  Here is a chart for flow rate of the pump that I think you have.  No pressure flow should be about 600, you seem in that range.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/opv-over-pressure-valve

What does the grind/coffee feel like at your setting.  Salt, sugar, sand, name a comparator.  How it feels gives us some idea where you are.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,025
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 8:32am
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

I found an old thread about grind size vs feel and some visual references as well.  Hope this helps.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/questions/48912

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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gregbera
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 4
Location: New York
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Jun 15, 2012, 6:03am
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

I tried changing my grinder settings but i did not feel a difference. All the coffee grinds were slightly courser than flour. When i tried the coarsest setting on my grinder and changed the setting from espresso to filter i got slightly better result. However when i just let the water run the water just trickles out without any pressure or stream of water. Maybe the problem is with the pressure and not the grinds.
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tracerbullet
Senior Member
tracerbullet
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Posts: 168
Location: Saint Paul
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Jun 15, 2012, 6:53am
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

That's all it will do is trickle out. As I mentioned it's a strong pump that can build a lot of pressure but it's a fairly low flow rate. Take the water from that little tube and run it through the boiler and everything else, then spread it out across a rather large (in relative terms) shower screen, and it's going to trickle out.

It is of course possible that your flow is still too low, but if you're expecting it to come pouring out like a fire hydrant you're expecting the wrong thing. And as mentioned already your flow rate that you measured is in fact about right per the specs of the pump.

That you changed the grinder settings and didn't see a difference in the grinds also tells you that's the route to look for problems.
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gregbera
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 4
Location: New York
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Jun 15, 2012, 7:57am
Subject: Re: Rancilio problem
 

Thank you for all your help. We tried many experiments to calibrate the grinder to receive different grains. After finding the balance between the grains the coffee seems to come out now at a much faster pace (even though it may be too fast now) but it comes out with a nice thick cream.
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