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Adventures in pump noise reduction
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tom_b
Senior Member
tom_b
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 537
Location: Maui, Hawaii

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia/PID
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Roaster: USPS/Popper
Posted Mon Jun 28, 2004, 1:24pm
Subject: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

I've bought some noise insulating/vibration reducing peel and stick stuff from a car audio place, and I'm considering the best way to put some in the case of my Silvia to reduce the noise from the vibe pump. At this point I'm thinking to box up the pump itself somehow, instead of covering all the large surfaces. Others have had success with various approaches along these lines, but if anyone would like to relate their adventures in noise reduction, I'm all ears...
thanks,
tom
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HB
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Apr 2003
Posts: 2,913
Location: Cary, NC
Posted Mon Jun 28, 2004, 3:14pm
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

I posted this image earlier.  Keith Monaghan (MOSFET) suggested moving the pump outside the casing.  He went one step further and upgraded to a Procon rotary at the same time.  In any case, moving the pump outside of the machine eliminated the majority of the vibration and noise.  The tee (right) is for checking the pressure regulator setting (left).  The pump and plumbing are mounted to 3/4" MDF board; everything hangs from a makeshift float assembly (eyehooks and thick rubber O-rings).  Now the gurgle of the water flash-boiling during a cooldown flush is louder than the pump.  :-)

It turns out that for my plumbed vibe pump, the majority of the noise was from the vibration of the hookup, not the pump itself.  I had to secure the line every foot leading to the pump with foam wrap to quell the noise.  Next time I'll go straight to copper tubing.  Hmmm-m, maybe this weekend...  :-o

-- Dan

HB: val-plumbing-notes.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
www.home-barista.com
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tom_b
Senior Member
tom_b
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 537
Location: Maui, Hawaii

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia/PID
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Roaster: USPS/Popper
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 1:57am
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

I made a little enclosure for Silvia's pump today, using Accumat, the stuff I got at a car audio place - put a piece against the middle wall, looped over the pump to the floor, then added a couple pieces which folded over from the sides. Semi-taped up the gaps at the corners. Results? Still rates 'not quiet' per my wife. The stuff isn't thick enough. I didn't cover all the other surfaces, I dunno, I still can't trace the noise. Even running the pump and pressing all the various surfaces, I don't know if it would be best to get some rubber under the pump, maybe rubber on foam, or keep plastering walls, plug holes.. A rotary in the cabinet will remain the final word on quiet :)
tom
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HB
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Apr 2003
Posts: 2,913
Location: Cary, NC
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 6:34am
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

tom_b Said:

The stuff isn't thick enough. I didn't cover all the other surfaces, I dunno, I still can't trace the noise.

Posted June 29, 2004 link

In the quest for quiet, I've concluded it is more effective to stop the vibration at the source than try to muffle the resulting noise afterward.  I don't recall what sort of saddle mounts Silvia's pump has, but the quieter vibe pump machines have thick solid rubber "floating" mounts.  

In the end I tired of chasing down whatever happen to be vibrating, which would change daily, and moved to an outboard pump.  The cabinet dramatically dampens the sound instead of amplifying it like the all-metal case of an espresso machine.  The sound is still buzzy compared to the throaty rumble of a rotary pump, but it's quiet.  The Mini Mazzer makes more noise.  Now the "peanut gallery" complains when I run the grinder during their morning cartoon... can't please 'em.  As a test this morning I disconnected the water supply and ran Valentina off a jug (from the tee shown on the right in my prior post).  It was quieter still, hmmm-m.

Of course, most don't want to make their espresso machine a permanent fixture.  Mine already had a water hookup (no filling), drain (no emptying), and is bolted to the countertop (no sliding).  Moving the pump out was a minor adjustment.  ;-)

-- Dan

 
www.home-barista.com
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dana_leighton
Moderator
dana_leighton
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 1,908
Location: Little Rock, AR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Relax; Caferina...
Grinder: Macap MXK; Baratza Vario-W;...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Technivorm; CCD; Melitta
Roaster: Poppery I w/PID controller
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 12:22pm
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

OK never mind. My Relax was deafeningly noisy when the pump was in action. I pulled off all the stainless to reveal the innards, and turns out the pump was IN CONTACT with the structural metal! Man o man what a difference it madewhen I pulled it back away from the structure. Now it just buzzes in there, mounted in its thick rubber mounts.

If you have the same problem: I had to (VERY CAREFULLY) pull the boiler upwards, which moved the flexible pump output tube fitting on the boiler, and pulled the pump up and away from the front stainless.

 
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
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espressoDOM
Senior Member
espressoDOM
Joined: 1 May 2003
Posts: 2,188
Location: Bay Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: WEGA Lyra (vibe)
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Vac Pot: (no more coffee equipment)
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Hot Top Roaster; Fresh Roast...
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 12:43pm
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

the only noise that makes me shudder is boiler refill........
it gets on my nerve at the wierdest times.... (usually when I need a good nap or when I have been relegated to the couch for the night...don't ask)
So partially to avoid ever hearing the noise I turn the machine OFF when not in use...
The boiler refill sounds super loud in the still of the night @ 5 or 6 AM in dead quiet... I just grit my teeth, shrug, and jump in the shower...hehehe

The new commercial pressure stat leans against the water tank which in turn vibrates all those cups I like to stack on top of Wega which makes for a lot of the noise...b/c when I hold the cups it makes less noise....

I love my hobby...

DanK ..... does that mean your machine is basically a gutted Valentina..... with only a boiler inside... INTERESTING... How very coffeegeek of you.. . guess that is why you are a Moderator.....muahahahaa

 
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
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HB
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Apr 2003
Posts: 2,913
Location: Cary, NC
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 1:25pm
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

espressoDOM Said:

DanK ..... does that mean your machine is basically a gutted Valentina..... with only a boiler inside...

Posted June 29, 2004 link

Empty?  No, not at all.  I store two dozen espresso cups inside, all toasty warm.  ;-)

-- Dan

 
www.home-barista.com
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espressoDOM
Senior Member
espressoDOM
Joined: 1 May 2003
Posts: 2,188
Location: Bay Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: WEGA Lyra (vibe)
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Vac Pot: (no more coffee equipment)
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Hot Top Roaster; Fresh Roast...
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

that I gotta see....(unless you are messin' with me)

 
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
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IronBarista
Senior Member
IronBarista
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 711
Location: Rapid City, SD
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Ginsu Silvia
Grinder: Ginsu Super Jolly & Rocky
Vac Pot: Ginsu Nada
Drip: Ginsu Melitta (pourover)
Roaster: Ginsu Behmor
Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 11:26pm
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

Another thing that vibrates is the cups on top of the machine.  Especially when they vibrate towards each other and start rattling together.  It makes it difficult when you're pulling a shot and have to separate cups but the Iron Barista can handle the multi-tasking with no sweat.  Have you ever pulled off the water tank cover when the pump is running and watched the hose?  I try to convince the SWMBO that I need a better ($$$) machine.  She says when Silvia dies but Silvia is still going strong after 4 or 5 years.

 
I drink espresso so I can work longer,
so I can make more money,
so I can drink more espresso,
so I can work longer,
so I can make more money,
so I can drink more espresso...
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tom_b
Senior Member
tom_b
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 537
Location: Maui, Hawaii

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia/PID
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Roaster: USPS/Popper
Posted Wed Jun 30, 2004, 1:01am
Subject: Re: Adventures in pump noise reduction
 

More adventures. I took off the pump cover I made, it did improve things but I wanted to put something under the pump. It was easy - unscrewed the two hex head screws on the bottom of the machine, stuck down 3 layers of the accumat stuff, pushed the screws through the accumat and screwed pump back into position. Had to be careful not to overtighten - odd that the pump is held in place by screws rather than bolts. I put more of the stuff on the other inner walls in the back and the bottom of the metal flap that sits over the pump. Results? I haven't asked my wife yet ;) It sounds better to me than the pump burrito approach I tried yesterday, but still gets its "nyaah" on..
tom
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