Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 2:06pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I just received my Rocket Espresso R58 the beginning of this week. Thought I'd post my impressions.
First off, I'm very glad I purchased this machine. It is a world of difference in upgrading from a Gaggia single boiler. I spent several weeks debating an HX versus the DB machines. I started thinking that the obsession with brew temperature control was perhaps overrated, then I did a little experiment where I used a thermometer and an AeroPress to quickly extract samples of coffee at various temps (180 deg, 190 deg, 200 deg, 210 deg) to see if I could really tell the difference. Then I had my wife taste them in a blinded fashion. Lo and behold, and much to my surprise, there really was a substantial difference. So, down the DB path I went, although an HX with a Eric's temp would of been another perfectly acceptable option. However the difference in cost with between an Evoluzione with an Eric's temp and the R58 was not that substantial.
I'm very happy with the Rocket R58. Would purchase it again. It is so nice to just flip the switch and half an hour later have perfectly stable brew temp and steam capability. Easy .. simple .. elegant.
The negatives, which I consider as minor, are as follows.
One, the packaging from the factory did not have enough padding, so the front of the E-61 brew head poked through the factory box and got a ding on the metal brew head during transit.
Two, the steam (service) boiler is cycled on and off by a thermostat rather than a pressure stat. So, when starting to steam, there is a lag before the steam boiler heating element kicks ON to help extend how long you can steam. The result is a shortened steam time capability since the temperature in the steam boiler doesn't drop until it automatically refills as water is used. If the steam boiler heating element was controlled by an pressure stat (like the HX machines), then as soon as you bled off pressure at the start of steaming, the heating element would kick in to extend the steaming time. I don't consider this a major problem as the steaming capability is more than adequate for me and my wife, but I wish the machine had been designed such that the steam (service) boiler heating element was controlled by a pressure stat rather than a thermostat.
Three, the machine should really have two toggle switches. A main power switch, then a second switch that would turn on the steam (service) boiler. This would allow easy capability to not waste time, electricity, etc. in heating up the steam (service) boiler if the intent for that session was only espresso. It is possible to do this with the external PID controller, but connecting it and paging through the settings menu is cumbersome.
Four, the external PID controller is a nice idea for maintaining the appearance of the machine, however, the cabling has pretty flimsy attachments between the cable and the two plug connectors. I have been extra cautious and gentle as it appears the cable would easily break if roughly handled.
Five, the manual could really use some help in both organization and translation to English. I think Rocket Espresso makes an incredibly solid, professional, machine. I am so glad the manual was not available for me to look at online before I purchased the machine, or I would of never had bought it.
Six, the machine ships to the United States with plumb-in attachments for BSP (British Standard Pipe) pipe fittings. The United States uses NPT (National Pipe Taper) pipe fittings. You can force them to maybe work (with a lot of goop, glue, and tape) but then you will likely have leaks. What is really needed to do it right is a BSP to NPT adapter coupling. Good luck finding one without ordering online at a plumbing speciality warehouse. Disappointing that the retailer didn't specify this would be needed to plumb-in the machine. Equally disappointing that Rocket Espresso doesn't ship machines to the US with this adapter. This is as crazy as sending the machine to the US with an electrical plug that will only plug into a European wall socket.
I know I wrote way more words on the issues or shortcomings of this machine than words describing positive attributes. My purpose of writing this is to help potential buyers with making an informed decision, and also to identify things that are not perfect. However, I would definitely buy this machine again. It is solid, elegant, functional, and I really enjoy just flipping a switch and have a set stable brew temp with no fuss. I took about a month of obsessive research in determining which machine to purchase and I am very happy with this decision.
smikes19 Senior Member Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 5 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rocket R58 Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 11:40pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I'm also a proud new R58 owner. Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. It's a big upgrade having used my Silvia for over 5 years. But, I do have my own annoyances--
The images online show that the plumbing fitting behind the machine as a fixed 1/8th bspt nipple. Instead, my unit has a 90 degree swivel fitting. That's not a huge deal, although the swivel fitting has two o-rings in it, and longevity might be a concern. But more importantly, the swivel fitting has a male to female coupler on it, and it is quite soft. I don't recall overly tightening it, but the coupler split and caused a big leak. My fix- hack the swivel fitting so that the braided line connects directly to it.
I also get the weird squeal when the service boiler refills. Not sure if my water pressure is too high. I haven't tried using a bucket of water to eliminate this possibility. But, the rocket is behind a culligan level2 filter which does reduce pressure somewhat.
The steam performance easily trumps the steaming abilities of the Silvia. I can steam at least twice the volume of milk I used to be able to. But, the wand initially emits a good amount of water- even after purging. See the previously mentioned YouTube vids.
The drip tray sits very firmly in the base. This makes removal tough, especially because there are plastic shims that hold it in place and they come off every time the tray is removed. Perhaps nothing some silicone can't fix.
Those small issues aside, it's a beautiful, well made machine. Hopefully it provides years of reliable service. With the Silvia, if something broke, you knew it would be a cheap, easy fix. In upgrading to the rocket, I realized that if something were to break, all bets are off.
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 5:13am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
smikes19 Said:
I'm also a proud new R58 owner. Overall, I'm happy with the purchase. It's a big upgrade having used my Silvia for over 5 years. But, I do have my own annoyances--
The images online show that the plumbing fitting behind the machine as a fixed 1/8th bspt nipple. Instead, my unit has a 90 degree swivel fitting. That's not a huge deal, although the swivel fitting has two o-rings in it, and longevity might be a concern. But more importantly, the swivel fitting has a male to female coupler on it, and it is quite soft. I don't recall overly tightening it, but the coupler split and caused a big leak. My fix- hack the swivel fitting so that the braided line connects directly to it.
I also get the weird squeal when the service boiler refills. Not sure if my water pressure is too high. I haven't tried using a bucket of water to eliminate this possibility. But, the rocket is behind a culligan level2 filter which does reduce pressure somewhat.
The steam performance easily trumps the steaming abilities of the Silvia. I can steam at least twice the volume of milk I used to be able to. But, the wand initially emits a good amount of water- even after purging. See the previously mentioned YouTube vids.
The drip tray sits very firmly in the base. This makes removal tough, especially because there are plastic shims that hold it in place and they come off every time the tray is removed. Perhaps nothing some silicone can't fix.
Those small issues aside, it's a beautiful, well made machine. Hopefully it provides years of reliable service. With the Silvia, if something broke, you knew it would be a cheap, easy fix. In upgrading to the rocket, I realized that if something were to break, all bets are off.
That drip tray issue is something I forgot to mention. Since I plumbed mine into the house the drip tray never moves, but you are correct in that lifting the drip tray full of water is a PITA and those shims will probably fall off with the removal of the tray.
Mine did not have a swivel elbow. Maybe your was loose from the factory and it is just a standard elbow?
I too had a Silvia (6+ yrs) that the Rocket replaced and nothing ever went wrong with it!
If you are not sure of your house pressure the gauges for the house are inexpensive compared to the Rocket. Get one of those Chris Coffee gauges to put after the filter and see what the Rocket is seeing. I don't know if the Rocket will draw from a bucket. Does it make the squeal when the Rocket is using the internal reservoir with the house still plumbed in but shut off with the PID?
I too like the shots the Rocket pulls and the steam capability is much greater than Silvia ever was, but I too get the water at first when opening the steam valve. I just put a cup under it to catch the mess. I also changed over to the 2 hole accessory steam tip since the holes are smaller and it makes steaming much easier. I could froth milk well with Silvia but was having difficult with the Rocket. Mission Control was not being cooperative with The Launch of Rocket 1!!! After reading some Posts about the 4 tip accessory package I though I would try it; it worked like a dream and now micro-foams milk better than Silvia.
I have had mine a month and already the brew lever is getting sticky. It needs to be dismantled and lubed but I can't remember what kind of lube to use. The first thing that comes to mind is Never Seize but I am not sure I want that stuff in my coffee :-)
Good luck with the squeal. WLL is sending me a new one.
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:25pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
I just removed the Rocket from its launch pad next to the sink. No elbow on the water in plumbing. The braided hose comes straight out the back of the machine. The bottom of the machine's frame is below the bottom the the stainless sides and back and that frame part is where the plumbing fitting is aimed straight back.
I sure like the robust nature of the machine and am looking forward to getting it's replacement from WLL as they assure me it will happen. We will see...
Right now R58 is boxed and ready to be shipped back to WLL.
ee61 Senior Member Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 37 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:33pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
Great information and feedback from you early brave adopters. A sincere thank you thus far for excellent information. Some of the early challenges you found are things that would bother anyone, & the plumbing connection issues just blows my mind. In all, I have heard enough to stall on my purchase until you/we get some better answers from Rocket. This is where I would bet you that Chris Coffee has a leg up on other vendors as he can think for his customers and know what we need if the manufacture falls short which is clearly the case. My bet is that he already has plumbing kits ready.
Not to hijack this thread but it gives me pause to consider the NEW Rocket Giotto Evoluzione V2 Espresso Machine. It is a revision on something already tested. I will post a new thread asking if there is better luck with the new Giotto. Information seems slow from actual early users. Don't post that information here.. Lets keep this strictly R58.
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:47pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 Dual Boiler Machine Information and Picture
ee61 Said:
Great information and feedback from you early brave adopters. A sincere thank you thus far for excellent information. Some of the early challenges you found are things that would bother anyone, & the plumbing connection issues just blows my mind. In all, I have heard enough to stall on my purchase until you/we get some better answers from Rocket. This is where I would bet you that Chris Coffee has a leg up on other vendors as he can think for his customers and know what we need if the manufacture falls short which is clearly the case. My bet is that he already has plumbing kits ready.
Not to hijack this thread but it gives me pause to consider the NEW Rocket Giotto Evoluzione V2 Espresso Machine. It is a revision on something already tested. I will post a new thread asking if there is better luck with the new Giotto. Information seems slow from actual early users. Don't post that information here.. Lets keep this strictly R58.
I will start a new thread under : NEW Rocket Giotto Evoluzione V2 Espresso Machine
If I did not want a double boiler with a rotary pump (supposed to be quiet) and an internal water reservoir, all with direct plumb ability the Giotto Evo would be where I was headed. I will look for your Thread.
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