The BTB seems to be getting good comments for a relatively low-priced specialist machine. Is it too good to be true, or would this be a smart buy and allow me to spend (even) more on a good grinder? I already have a Breville BES-860 and need a step up from this
I am not too bothered about bragging value and brand names. I just want the best bang for buck, and a machine that is relatively easy to get consistent quality out of for a non-professional user. I am totally willing to invest the time to learn how to drive a new machine, but realistically I am not going to be spending all day at the wheel and sadly do not have the patience for something too quirky
Usage will be shots and flat whites
Any comments on above machines and alternatives would be gratefully received
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,684 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 5:48am Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
The view of the BDB (you call it BTB) changes depending on who you talk to. My PERSONAL view of the machine is that it is too early to say one way or the other as Brevelle has a VERY BAD rep for quality as a company. The long term outlook for that machine is unknown, again my personal view is that in order to keep the very low price point with so many features, you have to cut corners and there are several design choices that they made which I think were poor. There is a group of people here who have the machines and for the vast majority of them, they like them. I agree that on paper they check all the WOW boxes but like I said, the long term outlook of the machine is unknown.
Now that I have that out of the way, like Knobby said, what are your expected habits going to be, it is easier to match a machine when you give a price point and expected use. Don't forget that you will need a good quality espresso grinder with any quality machine and the better your machine is the more the quality of the grinder will make a difference. See our how to buy an espresso machine FAQ to get a better background info. Things move quickly in this world and anything 6 months old can be quite out of date but the foundation information is rock solid. Before buying anything ask the board for what we currently recommend. http://coffeegeek.com/guides/howtobuyanespressomachine
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
trickydicky Senior Member Joined: 18 Jul 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 7:18am Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
NobbyR Said:
Welcome to CoffeeGeek!
In order to give you good advise, we need some answers first: What kind of coffee drinks do you prefer (espresso, latte, cappuccino)? How many cups per day and per session are we talking about? What's your budget? Does that include a grinder? What do you expect from an up-grade?
Thanks for reply. In answer to your questions: Two main drinks are espresso and flat white, which is an Aussie term for an espresso or double ristretto topped with microfoamed milk (no froth) in a small coffee cup (not a starbucket!). I guess you could call it a strong latte. Per day - usually only 4-8, but could be up to 40. Per session, usually 2, but sometimes up to 20. Budget is flexible but shooting for $3000 max inc a decent grinder eg Mazzer. I expect a machine that will reward any and all efforts I make to improve my skills and knowledge, be capable of expressing the true character of coffees I will try, be consistent and predictable, make great espresso and velvety microfoam, not break down if well cared for
trickydicky Senior Member Joined: 18 Jul 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 7:36am Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
Hi calblacksmith, thanks for the views on the breville
I will likely go with a more well proven machine as my budget allows this
My experience of the current breville 860 is that it's been a reliable coffee machine limited most by the built in grinder. I noticed the grind getting more and more coarse and recently opened it up to adjust the grinder. This worked a treat but revealed quite a lot of plastic parts
While the dual boiler model plus grinder would be double the price of my current model I can't help feeling the safer and probably more satisfying option will be to bite the bullet and go with a specialist brand with a true commercial grade construction
Please let me know any personal recommendations you may have
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,684 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 1:21pm Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
While I would not dream of turning you away and your presence here is highly valued, you might have a little better luck at http://coffeesnobs.com.au/ as they are located close to you and will be much more dialed in to what is available to you where you live. I hope you continue to visit us and become a long term member of the community.
OH, BTW, either of your two mentioned machines will work great for you, my personal preference is for ECM or Rocket (sister companies, sort of) but you would not go wrong with either the Rocket Giotto Evoluzione or the VBM Domobar Super 2B Dual Boiler.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,684 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 1:25pm Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
Building on the above, a great deal is on their for sale board. I don't know how local it is to you but it has got to be closer than the U.S. LOL! Click Here (coffeesnobs.com.au) $1500 A
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 7:00pm Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
I started out with a Gaggia Baby and Cimbali Junior Grinder and spent 500.00 USD for the Gaggia and 550.00 USD for the Cimbali and had this setup for three years, then in January I picked up a QuickMill Andreja for 1650.00 USD so I'm done with the upgrading...........for now.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,613 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 3:08am Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
trickydicky Said:
... Two main drinks are espresso and flat white, which is an Aussie term for an espresso or double ristretto topped with microfoamed milk (no froth) in a small coffee cup (not a starbucket!). I guess you could call it a strong latte. Per day - usually only 4-8, but could be up to 40. Per session, usually 2, but sometimes up to 20. Budget is flexible but shooting for $3000 max inc a decent grinder eg Mazzer. I expect a machine that will reward any and all efforts I make to improve my skills and knowledge, be capable of expressing the true character of coffees I will try, be consistent and predictable, make great espresso and velvety microfoam, not break down if well cared for ...
Well, your needs certainly put you in a league for a HX or DB machine. 20 shots at a time quite a lot, worth of a commercial espresso machine!
Out of the machines you mentioned, I'd prefer the Rocket Espresso Giotto, having the best manufacturing quality. They also offer a new DB machine, the R58. That one will probably exceed your budget, but you might still want to take a look at it. However, with the Giotto Evolutione you'd get a great prosumer machine capable of consistently producing great shots.
Taking a Mazzer grinder sounds like a good idea.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
trickydicky Senior Member Joined: 18 Jul 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 6:50am Subject: Re: What is best single group head machine for a non-pro user please?
Thanks NobbyR and gbastiani for your comments
I'm getting pretty excited now thinking about the upgrade... I can almost taste it but don't want to rush it
There seems to be a lot of love for the Giotto machines on this forum. I will find a local dealer to do some demos and ask around fellow Aussies on coffeesnobs.com.au
When I've got my rig I will post some follow up here
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