Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
New Guy Here
Find the Right Machine...
Package deals on the best machines from Izzo, Quick Mill, Rocket, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New Guy Here  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
CoffeeHealth
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Indiana
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 1:41pm
Subject: New Guy Here
 

Hello Guys and Gals...looks like the latest research shows coffee is now good for you you (at least for now)...seems like a good time to increase my indulgence.  Looking at an inexpensive machine, DeLonghi EC702; any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks a bunch!

David
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 862
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 2:14pm
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

First question is what are you doing for beans and grinder? Fresh, properly roasted beans and a good grinder are probably more important to good espresso than the machine itself.

The DeLonghi you're looking at uses a pressurized portafilter to 'fake' crema on less than fresh beans so you get what looks like espresso out of it. But, unless you're buying good, freshly roasted whole beans and grinding just before pulling a shot, quality's going to a a moving target.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,030
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 2:23pm
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

Grinder is the most important thing.  You need to spend as much or more on the grinder than the machine when you are at the low end of the espresso ladder. How many and what type of drinks do you want to make a day?  What is your budget? Is used a problem? Do you want steaming for milk?

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,015
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 3:25pm
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

I used the EC701 for several years, almost identical to the 702.  I could make an Americano that I liked better than one purchased at one of the chains.  I had not looked at any forums, ignorance was bliss.  It finally was dying and I looked for a replacement.  I looked at the EC702, and at repair of the 701, and then started reading.  You have already olpened your eyes by coming here.  I doubt that the EC702 will keep you happy for long.  Perhaps compared to nothing, but you will research and find a lot better.  

I do not know your budget or planned use as others noted.  Find an adequate grinder and budget that and then look at machines.  Gaggia was bang for the buck, used if needed.  I would opt for a used Gaggia before a new Delonghi EC702.

Again, recently researched and purchased, Baratza Preciso refurb directly from Baratza for $239 seemed best.  They post refurbs every Thursday.  Used grinders are also possible, but make sure that you choose one good for espresso, and finely adjustable.

Do not even consider buying pre-ground beans.  I tried that as well because I did not budget ahead for the grinder.

Perhaps you can learn from my mistakes.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CoffeeHealth
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Indiana
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 6:29pm
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

Wow.....great questions, you guys are very advanced!....interesting that the grinding is of most importance.  I wonder if "coffee" is like wine; meaning does it take a skilled tounge to tell the difference?

In answer to the questions, I would be a daily drinker, steamed milk, prefer new machine, currently using preground expresso. I'd equally enjoy an expresso or cappuccino (my current machine is the basic Krups from the 1990's)  My budget; well if you had $400 to spend what would you buy?

looking forward to learning..thanks for the help!

David
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 862
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Thu Jul 19, 2012, 7:10pm
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

Well, here are a few more questions:

  1. What's your current touchstone for quality coffee and espresso? Starbucks? A local cafe? A serious "3rd Wave" coffee bar? What's the best a) cup of coffee and b) espresso/cappuccino you've ever had and what, to your taste, made them so?

  2. How much time and energy are you interested in investing? How much money? You can make up, to a certain extent, for less than perfect equipment by taking control of everything else. As an example, As a musician, I don't have a lot of money to invest in coffee gear. As much as I'd love to have a dedicated espresso bar with a (heck, a couple) pro-level machines and an amazing grinder, I've had to start slow. A good hand grinder can do as good of a job as a $1k commercial coffee shop espresso grinder, but it takes time and your energy to grind the coffee - you can't just push a button. But the grinder plays such an important part that I started out by picking up a reconditioned, rebuilt hand grinder that was guaranteed to grind fine enough for espresso. Cost me less than $75 and works really well. I ended up picking up a number of hand grinders on Ebay, finding ones that worked for espresso and reselling the ones that didn't. But the first one was really all I needed. If I'd insisted on a motorized grinder, it would have coast me at least five times as much to match the quality of the grind I get. If you don't mind spending a minute or so grinding for each shot of espresso, you can have that much more to invest in a better machine. If you want closer to immediate results and less personal involvement in preparation, you'll need to spend at least $200, minimum on a grinder if you insist on new, and that's just getting into something like the Baratza Virtuoso with Precisio burrs.

  3. Are you looking for improving your palate and increasing your knowledge, or just looking for something that's "good enough". It doesn't take a lot to be able to produce something at home that's better that what you can get at most cafes, but it does require focus and consistency. Reducing the variables is the name of the game. Consistent and repeatable grind, temperature, preparation and extraction will lead you to consistently excellent espresso. Your level of interest and commitment will determine what your end results will be.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CoffeeHealth
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Indiana
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 7:33am
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

Wow..head spinning and it’s not from toooooo much caffeine.  

It’s funny, please bear with me, but I recently was on the AutoGeek Forum and asked a simple questions, "How's the new Meguiars Ultimate Wax for my new car"?   I was instructed I need:

• 3 separate buckets to wash my car
• Auto Shampoo and measuring spoons
• A clay bar to clay the car surface
• Microfiber and Waffle Towels
• A PreWax Cleaner and polisher preferably applied with a dual action rotary buffer
• A Sealer
• Finally Meguiars Wax layered 3x
• Not to mention the trim, windows, wheels, tires, interior ect ect and ect

NOW I AM AFRIAD TO EVEN TOUCH MY CAR!

I guess my point is, that the high level of expertise here can almost stop me in my tracks.  For now, I just want something that looks nice on my countertop (the wow factor for entertaining), brews a product that’s better than my 1990’s Krups and cost less than $300.  I do know from this forum that a good hand grinder is a must purchase and I plan on doing that.  And since the “beans” are so important maybe a recommendation to the type or web site to peruse.
Than once I brew a few hundred cups, I can look forward to kicking it up and notch.
Thanks again guy…and thanks for taking the time to reply!
David
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 862
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 8:01am
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

It's what you get for asking on a forum for 'geeks' ;-)

The first thing I would suggest, given that you've stated an interest in buying a quality hand grinder, is make that a separate budget item and make your machine budget $300. Why do I suggest that? Because at $300, you're within spitting distance of something like a Gaggia Baby, whereas if you have to get a grinder, also, within that $300 budget, you're at the very low-end of pump espresso machines. A new $200 espresso machine will probably make better espresso than your Krups, but it'll be mostly plastic, fragile, and aimed at the planned obsolescence of inexpensive appliances we've all so come to love.

Secondly, I would start asking myself "Why do I feel the need for a new machine?" What you can get used at that price point is sooooooo much better than what you can get new at that price point, that, if the end goal is quality rather than bling, it's a no-brainer. Especially with some of the bargains that show up here on the BST forum when CG members give in to the inevitable 'upgrade-itis' and move to a new machine. Plus, people here tend to take very good care of their gear. My Gaggia Synchrony Digital Super-Auto died just recently (it was my gateway into the world of espresso, coming from just home roasting, but that's a long story), and for $300, I found a used Nuova Simonelli Ellimatic (HX machine that's, more of less, the precursor to the Oscar).

The other reason I ask the questions I do is that it always helps to refine your own understanding of the possible scope of what it is you're dipping your toe into before you take that plunge. As my profile says, I live coffee - and I've learned a huge amount by hanging out here and over on Home Barista. Depending on your personal OCD tendencies, it can become a very involving avocation.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
TheSunInsideYou
Senior Member
TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 8:15am
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

CoffeeHealth Said:

Wow..head spinning and it’s not from toooooo much caffeine.  

I guess my point is, that the high level of expertise here can almost stop me in my tracks.  For now, I just want something that looks nice on my countertop (the wow factor for entertaining), brews a product that’s better than my 1990’s Krups and cost less than $300.  I do know from this forum that a good hand grinder is a must purchase and I plan on doing that.  And since the “beans” are so important maybe a recommendation to the type or web site to peruse.
Than once I brew a few hundred cups, I can look forward to kicking it up and notch.
Thanks again guy…and thanks for taking the time to reply!
David

Posted July 20, 2012 link

Hey, David. This is a very honest response, and I think everyone can respect that. Most of us--if not all--were there at one point. As far as the grinder goes, the members here are not just referencing excellence, they're just talking a starting point, so it's good that you recognize that. The machine is of less importance, but again, the coffee is not. The coffee is another non-negotiable. And again, you recognize this, and that's awesome. GoCoffeeGo only carries quality options and has new deals every week. Verve has free shipping and great offerings. Intelligentsia, Stumptown, and Counter Culture are (almost) inarguably the "Big 3," but they're going to cost you--and are sometimes well worth--a couple bucks more than most others (and Intelli will kill you on shipping charges). Finding a local roaster or a local cafe that carries fresh roasted, quality coffee is a great alternative to the mail order.

Enjoy!

-Dave-
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 8:21am
Subject: Re: New Guy Here
 

LOL, I remember the days that I felt that a $30 "burr" grinder from Bed, Bath and Beyond was more than anyone could EVER want or need! Well those days are long gone now but we all start where we start and for most, that is with modest equipment. There is no shame there!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New Guy Here  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.393788099289)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+