CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 1,584 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: CC1 Grinder: Baratza
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 8:31am Subject: Re: New Guy Here
I had (still have) a Delonghi Bar32, with a cheap hand grinder like the Hario Slim it can make great coffee vs what you get a Starbucks etc. It'll be more forgiving of grind being pressurized as well. Won't be as good as a nice machine and nice grinder (like my CC1 and Preciso set) but it's still much better then most coffee shops.
Look on Ebay and you can find used Gaggia's popping up. Which would be better, then get a hand grinder like Hario Slim or a bit more for the Porlex until you can save up for a nicer grinder. Long as you use fresh beans, even the cheap pressurized machines can make decent shots.
I'd go for the Hario Mini Mill, for one thing the top has a lid so chaff and beans don't come out and it's a nice shape to hold. It can be modded as well: Click Here (www.roaste.com)
Your going to want at least a scale to measure as well, a .1g at least, I have this one and not only was it cheap but the company is known for their quality and the scale came perfectly calibrated to .1g, can use the top to zero out the weight and measure your beans. Click Here (www.amazon.com)
btw - not on Autogeek much but used to be for a long time, I still use a electric leaf blow to dry, it's way way faster and no markings from towels lol (even a nice microfiber can leave webbing on black). Just like the Starbucks type shop vs people on here, most normal detailers and people don't have a clue about washing a vehicle let alone correctly polishing and prepping etc, but AG people sure as hell do. You get addicted, just like you will with the coffee stuff lol.
Any close roasters to you? Or shops that carry fresh roasted beans (a good coffee shop will get at least a shipment a week in fresh), would be cheaper to start with as if your trying to budget online ordering can be expensive with shipping and your usually stuck with 12oz packs.
Not really anymore, just got busy with business and other stuff, check in once in a blue moon lol.
Far as roaster I meant actual roasting companies, did a quick search and found this: **nevermind link won't post right, just google "indiana coffee roasters" , maybe someone else will chime in that knows your area? If you have a whole foods or fresh market near you, they carry better beans than a normal grocer, and some have their own roastery... I know I've seen Counter Culture at one or the other (can't recall) and usually it's 2-4 weeks out from roast date but will still taste way better then normal store bought stuff.
Haven't been to a Gloria Jean in years so no clue, if Starbucks I actually don't mind their Verona, sure won't be as good as nice fresh roasted beans, but sure as hell better than nothing.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 3,073 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 3:03pm Subject: Re: New Guy Here
I was where you are now about 10 months ago. I read a lot of threads here and at home-barista before a pulled the trigger. A lot of what I read said "what do I get as an upgrade from X" and X was the machine was thinking about buying. So, I upgraded my budget about 5 times before I bought my used Oscar. I know you might decide to stick with new anyway, but I am tossing my reasons out there for you to at least think about. (my husband will not buy used if he can possibly help it)
I wanted more than I could afford and even having to fix a few things on Oscar I am glad I did it. I hate buying something then turning around and wanting an upgrade because that is a waste of money. And I hate debt so I was not willing to "charge it". I know you want shiny and new and I am a girl so totally understand that, but I had champagne taste on a beer budget and decided used was more bang for my buck.
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 8,194 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Jul 20, 2012, 8:02pm Subject: Re: New Guy Here
Just a few notes. and remember, coffee is cooking, coffee is gourmet cooking. There are more flavor compounds in coffee than there is in wine. If you can taste the difference between a Good bottle of wine and the stuff that comes 1 gallon in a cardboard box for $5, you should be able to taste the difference between fresh high quality coffee and the stuff on the supermarket shelf. Why is a grinder so important?
1) Well, it comes down to consistency, the more consistent your grinds are, the more evenly you will extract all that coffee goodness that is locked up inside those high buck beans you bought. With an inconsistent grind, you will never start to get the coffee out of those large boulder size chunks of beans while the dust size pieces have given up all their flavor and are into nasty tasting swill water. SOOOOO, Consistent size grinds give you an even extraction from your beans and optimize your flavor per your buck.
2) You need to grind for your particular espresso machine, the age of the beans, the day, the humidity in the air, the roast of the beans and more factors you have not even thought of yet. As the variables change, so will your need to adjust the fineness of your grind to match the conditions you face to get a (standard double shot of espresso) 2 fl oz of espresso from 14 g of beans in 25 to 30 seconds from 195 to 205 F water without over or under extracting or channeling.
3) You need to grind right before pulling your shot. Coffee ages quickly when ground, about 15 minutes from the time you grind the coffee is it before you start tasting the coffee going stale. Think of an apple, when you cut it open, the flesh is nice and white.. right? If you let the slices sit on the counter for, say, 15 minutes, they get a brown coating of oxidation on them don't they? Well the same is true for coffee but because the coffee starts out with a brown color, you don't see the oxidation forming on the surface of the grounds. Now consider the size of each particle of coffee, the surface area. The coffee oxidizes at the same rate as the apple slices so you have MUCH MORE OXIDATION in the same period of time than you do on the apples, thus 15 minutes is about all you get time wise to get the coffee made after grinding.
Why do you need coffee that is no more than two weeks old from the day it was roasted?
See #3 above but adjust the time line to account for the larger size of the bean. Coffee beans go stale, you just can not get around that fact.
Now you can see why you can not possibly hope to get anything good from that pre ground coffee from the supermarket that has been sitting on the shelf for the last 9 months!
In the big picture, the espresso machine just gets the water to the proper temp and pushes it through the coffee bed at the proper pressure, the more you spend on the machine the better the temp consistency is, the easier it is to operate, the higher volume of coffee you can brew in a period of time but if you don't have fresh beans and freshly and properly grind them your chances of getting anything drinkable is vastly reduced.
Now, where to buy those fresh beans anyway? It is great if you have a good roaster local to you but if not do not fear. The internet is a great place to search for beans. The good roasters roast every day and send out shipments every day so you always get fresh beans with the added bonus of.... because beans need to off gas for about 3 days from roasting AND shipping takes about 3 days to go cross county, your beans get to your front door at their peak, ready to go! Check here for a place to start, all of these vendors have been used by us and we can attest to the quality of the product. They are by no means the ONLY place to buy coffee but we know the product they sell. Take a look at: Click Here (www.home-barista.com)
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
CoffeeHealth Senior Member Joined: 19 Jul 2012 Posts: 11 Location: Indiana Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Jul 22, 2012, 10:10am Subject: Re: New Guy Here
Well, went to Costco....bought a lot of stuff I really didnt need including the KRUPS GVX1 BURR GRINDER..just got done reading the reviews (not very good)...looks like its going back. Going to stick with my original plan to my Barrista start--->Hario Mini Mill.
Posted Mon Jul 23, 2012, 8:48am Subject: Re: New Guy Here
I'm also pretty new here (actually, I've been lurking around for about a year, but just joined and am making my first post). I've been into "good" coffee for a while now, but mainly french press. My wife bought me a Cuisinart (CM-100, I think) machine for Christmas this year, as the start of my espresso hobby. I researched it, and took it back without even using it, since it cost us $200, and I read that a Gaggia "New" Baby would last longer and make better coffee, for only a few extra dollars. I eventually bought a New Baby for $289 (brand new), and am quite happy with the results. I've never used the DeLonghi machine you are looking at, but I know that Gaggia Baby machines are on sale from a prominent online retailer right now. I'm new to the forum so I can't mention the name, from what I gather, but if you google:
"Gaggia New Baby refurbished"
you can find an ivory (apparently not as pretty as the black one I have) for $219. The first and third results for me are different named stores, but are the same parent company, so should be the same price/service, etc. I think the refurbished models have a 6 month warranty on them, and I've heard pretty good things about the reliability of the Gaggia Baby (that's one reason I bought mine). I bought from these guys in December, and all has gone well so far. For the very few extra dollars, you get a machine that (I think) is much more capable (and can be modified to give even better espresso down the road, from what I hear...OPV mod, steam wand mod, PID controller installation).
In terms of grinder...I had a Zassenhaus manual knee grinder (Santiago model) before I bought my espresso machine, and the plastic housing under the burr got eaten away by the burr, and the grind is not very impressive right now. So, I bought an Orphan Espresso LIDO grinder...it's manual, and five times the price of the Mini Mill you're looking at, but the grind quality is great so far, and it's built by hand to last forever.
Whatever you decide, good luck...I think you'll enjoy the ride. I am.
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