Posted Tue Jun 29, 2004, 12:40pm Subject: Grinder Suggestions, Please
I just ordered my first espresso machine, an Isomac Venus, and i've decided to get a grinder as well.
After reading all the reviews, I'm a bit lost -- or at least upset. The 'only choice' i seem to have in purchasing a grinder, for my needs, is the Mazzer Mini at $375 :(
I'm hoping someone can point me in a good direction.
My needs are this: Moderate use of grinding espresso. I figure I'll want some every other day or so Frequent use of coarser grinds : I'm going through 1.5 lbs of cold brewed coffee a week right now -- set to a percolator grind. I make at least a pot of french press , automatic drip , or vaccum pot on the weekend mornings.
Right now I've got a burr grinder by krups braun or mr. coffee -- i don't know which one, it seems that all 3 companies branded the exact same machine and sold it for $30 a few years back.
It works decent for the automatic drip, but it makes a whole bunch of dust for every grind setting. Thats annoying on the french press and vacuum. Its also messier to clean on the counter and cold-brew machine.
The Mazzer Mini seems to have 3 things going for it that the other maches reviewed get beat on: a .25¢ piece of plastic that lets one remove a hopper full of beans to easily swap in a different variety of bean. that sounds better than my current system of grinding a couple tablespoons of beans at a time. people seem to say that its easy/fast to clear out one grind from the machine, so you dont have espresso in your french press and vice versa - a few reviews said that even the rocky was difficult in this people seem to say that is performs equally well across the range of grinds -- many of the machines seem to excel or perform well in the espresso range, but not as well in other ones
is there a cheaper, less amazing machine that will cater to my grinding styles?
also, when people here say that some machines create an uneven grind and 'dust' -- exactly what do they mean exactly? my $30 grinder produces an uneven grind and dust. I'd expect to think that the unevenness and dust on the Maestro Plus is a small fraction of what it is on my Krups.
Just about any quality burr grinder above $200 sold by Chris' Coffee, Espresso Parts, Abree, WLL and a whole host of others will be a big improvement. As you move up in price you get, in general, more precision, more power and bigger burr sets. These translate into better taste in subtle ways. Less expensive grinders that have a good reputation include the Cunhill, Innova and Rancilio Rocky among others. Prosumer grinders would include the Mazzer Mini and Mini E and La Cimbali Junior among others.
If you are going to be using your grinder for espresso and other grinds (drip or french press) then you want one that has a fast adjustment and highly repeatable settings. The Mazzer has a good reputation in that regard. Forget removing the bean hopper to change coffee beans, that is like removing a toe because of a bad toe nail. Just keep your beans in a convenient container and grind the exact amount you need at the moment. In that context, the hopper is irrelevant.
I love my La Cimbali, but think that a Mazzer might serve you best.
Why not get a pair of grinders? I'm not sure if counter space is an issue, but the Mazzer's pretty big, as is the Venus, so your not exactly downplaying espresso in your kitchen. You could get a refurb Maestro for under $100 that would do a great french press or cold brew; and something like the Rocky or the Innova for espresso only. You're still at less $$ than the mazzer, and your life would be a whole lot easier in terms of time spent dialing grinds in and swapping beans out.
Also - I'm not sure how much espresso you're making - if you're drinking 1.5 lbs of regular coffee a week already and you're planning on adding a bunch more espresso, I think we'll need to find you a support group -but assuming your an occasional espresso drinker the doser on the Mazzer might be more of a pain than its worth.
1.5 lbs of cold-brew coffee a week -- 1lb of beans makes about 6cups of cold brew 'concentrate' which, when diluted, is like 12-18 cups of iced coffee. summers in nyc are hot, and well, that goes fast.
i drink way too much coffee as it is. i've actually been considering a pair of grinders - but figured a grinder + machine would take up less space than 2
I appreciate the idea of a pair of grinders but have another idea as well. First, the pair: In a write up about French Press, Mark suggested that the Bodum Antigua (~60 bucks, I believe) is a consistent grinder for Press, but not for espresso, because it does not grind finely enough. That leaves a lot of price range (Mazzer price minus $60) for a good quality espresso grinder.
Of course, I have used my Mazzer for non-espresso duty, so you can definitely get by with just one grinder. If you're going to be switching back and forth, I would strongly suggest the following. Put an indication on the dial where your "standard" setting is for your espresso blend. You'll still need to tweak up and down from there based on humidity and such, but you'll see immediately if you have forgotten to re-adjust it. Second, given your description of intended use, I'd consider a doserless grinder. You will be a non-espresso primarily, with intermittent espresso use (point of reference, I make 5+ shots a day). So, grinding right to the portafilter makes sense. More importantly, I find dosing from the doser into anything but a portafilter to be annoying, especially in quantities like you would have for a full pot of coffee. YMMV, but that's my experience.
I still don't know that a Mazzer is necessary---don't get me wrong, it's great, but it likely represents the top of the home grinders, not the bottom acceptable one---but if you are prepared to come close, then you could do yourself a real favor by getting a nice grinder and you'll appreciate it in all your coffee endeavors. However, with the exception of the electronic version (more pricey) the Mazzer is not doserless. So if I were you and it was my money (I'm not and it isn't) I'd look at the high end doserless grinders.
I would disagree with the advice to get a cheaper grinder for the press pot. The coffee will be much better ground with the Mazzer or whatever.
I use a Rocky for all my home grinding needs. I can't say it's really convenient to change out beans, especially with limited counter space. I usually just try to plan ahead. Changing the grind setting is a piece of cake though.
If you really have your heart set on the Mazzer, I'd say go for it. If you are willing to trade the hopper feature to save money, a Rocky, Gaggia MDF, Anfim or Tranquilo will give you almost as good a grind for at least $100 less.
My Mazzer Mini has a Super-Jolly hopper that was cut smaller to fit an extra doser lid. It looks cool IMO and fits under the counter. I usually grind enough for 2-4 shots at one time anyway (keep a brush nearby!).
Personally, I use my manual for french press. The manual seems OK for coarse grinding but it's too much work for espresso for me.
Also, I hear that Rocky is easy to adjust and will work well for both.
Whatever you choose - Venus deserves a good partner and any good grinder will set you on your way to fabulous espresso drinks!
i was going to get the rocky doserless, until i read that its really good for espresso, but not good to do espresso + coarse -- dialing up and down can create issues (or so coffeegeek reviews/forums claim)
i'm not in love with dosers. they seem very useful for espresso, but i can see them being annoying for coarse grinds -- are the dosers on the mazzer mini removable by any chance?
i noticed on those ebay super-jolly models -- some of the rebranded models don't have dosers, while the main brand does -- are they different models / inferior models / or models with a broken, unattached doser? anyone know?
anyways, one of those used for $200 soudns like a good deal. they look like they could handle all that i need.
What's wrong with an Isomac Professional or Gran Macinino? I have the Lux which is the same apart from the motor and styling. They have very good conical burrs and can easily be adjusted from fine to coarse settings and you don't have a doser to get in the way of the non-espresso usage.
They aren't as solid as Mazzer or Rocky but we aren't talking about a cafe or big office here and grind quality (just not speed or adjustability) is as good as a Super Jolly. The main problems are they are a bit noisy and the adjustment steps can sometimes be a bit wider than optimal so you may need to alter your tamp pressure at times.
Greg
BTW What is the difference between the Isomac Professional and Gran Macinino aside from looks? One web site says the Gran Macinino grinds faster but they both have a 100W motor and the same burr set so how could that be?
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