I've heard great things about the Crossland CC1, but lately have read more and more about how the Silvia has major temperature problems and that installing a PID would make it encroach HX territory.
In the same price range, it's either the Crossland CC1, Ascaso Uno PID, or the Le'Lit PL041 PID machines.
CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 500 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012, 3:20pm Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
CC1 is an awesome machine, especially for the money... wouldn't own one if it weren't. Silvia had it's place and time but it's just an odd ball now if bought new, it's priced along others that offer more features and control like the full featured PID and thermoblock for fast switching to steaming on the CC1, and then if you do add a PID it raises the price high enough to where you may as well just step up to an entry level H/X machine which is a way better machine vs it. I thought the little Le'Lit PL041 PID was a cool machine and seems to be well received (was always out of stock when I checked), have heard more neg stuff then good on the Ascaso Uno PID (and Ascaso is general) so take that for what it's worth. I looked into it at a point but decided against it.
If you wanted to still get the Silvia you could always get a used one (generally always on Ebay and pop up on here) to save some money and install an PID yourself.
sn_85 Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2011 Posts: 131 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Andreja Premium Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012, 8:19pm Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
Clancey Said:
Hi Jttran28,
Here is what I would look at. I have used both
- Rancilio Silvia and Rocky Grinder Package, you can find for approx. $950. You can pid this as well. Many on the CG forum will swear by this. Not fully auto, but after a little practice you and your wife will love this.
I'm not sure where you heard that from. I think the general census on CG is that the Silva has had it's day and it was a good value when it was $350 - $450. Now that the price is $630 it's no longer worth it. You can find many single boiler machines which all carry similar pro's and con's as the Silvia for much less. The Le'lit and Gaggia Classic cost $200 less than the Silvia, money that you can put into a better grinder. The big advantage the Silvia has over these machines is the large brass boiler which makes it a much better milk steamer. Again, not worth the extra $200 in my opinion. The Crossland CC1 is only $70 more than the Silvia but it has a PID and separate thermoblock for steam, eliminating long wait times to steam. Spending $150-$200 on a PID for the Silvia makes matters worse and at that point you're better off going for an NS Oscar or Bezzer BZ02.
I think the general consensus here is to buy small or go big, not in between. The reason is that most single boilers are beginner machines that will be upgraded to an HX or DB anyways. So you might as well put good money into a grinder rather then into a machine which in the end will be disposable.
jttran28 Senior Member Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Posts: 36 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Compak k3
Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012, 8:06am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
sn_85 Said:
I think the general consensus here is to buy small or go big, not in between. The reason is that most single boilers are beginner machines that will be upgraded to an HX or DB anyways. So you might as well put good money into a grinder rather then into a machine which in the end will be disposable.
What are some of the higher end options you recommend? I checked out the Quick Mill Andreja Premium, which is what you have in your signature and that is a nice machine. That is a bit out of my budget if I have to buy a grinder as well but are there any other options? I want to buy one good machine now so I don't have to buy one again for a long long time.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,698 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012, 8:27am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
it's a nice thought to just go big and get a DB or HX, but with your budget set at $1k top, you won't be able to afford an HX/DB AND a grinder - unless you're willing to go with used gear. Have you read about the differences between HX and DB? It's essential to do so before deciding which type of machine is best for you.
Someone may have said this already, but it's so important I'm going to say it (possibly again). Figure out which grinder you want and then see how much money is left over for a machine, rather than doing it the other way around. It's been said many times, and for good reason, you can make better drinks with a great grinder and a so-so machine than you can with a so-so grinder and a great machine.
Knowing what I know now, after having done a ton of reading...I wouldn't buy anything less than a Baratza Preciso for espresso. I would highly recommend considering a used machine, since you live in No Cal. There ought to be a decent supply of relatively well-maintained used machines in your area. Also, don't forget there's a great B,S,T section of this forum.
Also, I'd be careful on your milk temp. You're pushing the limits of not scalding it at 165F. I'd recommend using a thermometer when you froth because of that.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,605 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012, 10:29pm Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
Even though a DB machine has its advantages, and it's the "dernier cri" at the moment, most commercial machines are HX. So, IHMO a DB is nice to have, but you don't really need one.
Apart from that, I can only second what Emradguy said. Get a decent grinder and then buy a machine that will suite your left over budget. If you should end up with a crap grinder even a prosumer machine won't help you making good espresso. But with a good grinder you can upgrade to any machine you like, if you feel the need or urge to do so.
Or you save your money until you can afford the set-up you really prefer.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
sn_85 Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2011 Posts: 131 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Andreja Premium Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri Aug 10, 2012, 11:44pm Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
jttran28 Said:
What are some of the higher end options you recommend? I checked out the Quick Mill Andreja Premium, which is what you have in your signature and that is a nice machine. That is a bit out of my budget if I have to buy a grinder as well but are there any other options? I want to buy one good machine now so I don't have to buy one again for a long long time.
You don't have to get a QM Andreja Premium, or similary type machine, to get good coffee. That machine was out of my "budget" as well but it did what I wanted so I splurged a little (or a lot) on it. If $1000 is a rock solid number you have a few options.
1) Crossland CC1 + Baratza Preciso. Remember, you must get the Preciso and not the Virtuoso with Preciso burrs. I know that's confusing but it's a must in my book. That setup would run you right at $1000 and I'm sure if you bought the two together you'd get a discount or maybe a few freebies if you ask nicely. A solid setup in my opinion. The machine has a built in PID, thermoblock for steam, and a nice big boiler
Looks like they have an open box one as well for $100 less and I think it still comes with the same warranty. Click Here (www.seattlecoffeegear.com)
2) Gaggia Classic + Baratza Preciso. Another good beginner setup and with the extra 5% off code it brings the package down to $621. Won't come with a PID however and you'll be waiting for the machine to switch to steam a little longer than the CC1. The Gaggia Classic is a tried and true machine and will last you a good 10-15 years if you take care of it.
3) Gaggia Classic + Compak K3 Touch. Brings you in at right at under $800. Very solid grinder in my opinion and would a step up from the Preciso in terms of build quality. It's more or less on the level of a Mazzer Mini or Macap M4. The good thing is that if you invest in the grinder now when you eventually upgrade your machine you won't need to upgrade the grinder. I am considering upgrading to it myself.
4) Open box CC1 + Compak K3 Touch. Puts you in at $26 over budget but I think that really maximizes your $1000 budget. You get a good machine with the features you want and a grinder that will last you several upgrades. I'd take this over option 1.
Always add in about $100 for miscellaneous items (tamper, mat, knock box, milk frothers, etc) and ask if they can throw in a few freebies if you buy a combo. At this point I would just ignore the Rancilio Silvia and Rocky. They were good about 10 years ago but times have changed and so have their prices. There are much better options nowadays for cheaper. As others have said, you also live in a place where there are many coffee enthusiasts. You should have no problems finding a used Mazzer Mini or Super Jolly for a good price. That would save you money and since those things are built like tanks you won't have to worry about it breaking down. Just be sure to check it out and give it a good run before you commit to it.
jttran28 Senior Member Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Posts: 36 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Compak k3
Posted Sat Aug 11, 2012, 11:33am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
Thanks to everyones help, I finally know the direction I want to go.
Crossland CC1 will be the espresso machine.
As for grinder, I'm still not to sure. Please suggest something for me. I'm tired of researching and going back and forth. AT this point, the budget doesn't matter.
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