calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,642 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 5:50am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
Superautomatic machines are all about ease of use above all else. Lifetime warranty, ? WHO'S LIFETIME? the machines life time? the machines EXPECTED lifetime? YOUR lifetime? the STOREs lifetime? The word lifetime is worthless without a definition.
Superautomatic machines, like Knobby said, are basically disposable, they are very trouble prone and consumer grade machines are even more so.
When you taste espresso made from a GOOD machine and grinder with FRESH coffee, a superautomatic machine takes a distant third place..... at best.
It all depends on what you value most, great espresso and espresso drinks or ease of use with a single button push, the choice is yours, please think carefully about what you want before buying anything. I would hate to see you make the decision that does not best fit your needs regardless of which way you decide to go.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 7:50am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
calblacksmith Said:
Superautomatic machines are all about ease of use above all else. Lifetime warranty, ? WHO'S LIFETIME? the machines life time? the machines EXPECTED lifetime? YOUR lifetime? the STOREs lifetime? The word lifetime is worthless without a definition.
Superautomatic machines, like Knobby said, are basically disposable, they are very trouble prone and consumer grade machines are even more so.
When you taste espresso made from a GOOD machine and grinder with FRESH coffee, a superautomatic machine takes a distant third place..... at best.
It all depends on what you value most, great espresso and espresso drinks or ease of use with a single button push, the choice is yours, please think carefully about what you want before buying anything. I would hate to see you make the decision that does not best fit your needs regardless of which way you decide to go.
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 9:58am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
jttran28 Said:
That is great info. As of now, I'm not a coffee geek yet but may be in the future but I think the convenience of the super automatic wins. The stores offer a full lifetime warranty on these products. I don't think the store is going to go away anytime soon. Is that a good enough reason to not have to worry about the servicing?
Assuming that the store never goes under and parts are always available (unlikely), there is the cost of time, effort, and shipping of the machine for service that must be considered.
As always, I can not in good conscience recommend any super-automatic machine regardless of your current palate for coffee. But if you must, buy it from Costco. They are definitely not going under soon and they won't make you ship your machine out for two weeks round-trip while making you wait two more weeks for the part to come in and a third week while they repair it (5 weeks total). They will just allow you to return the machine for it's full purchase price and buy the new ones they have for sale.
jttran28 Senior Member Joined: 30 Jul 2012 Posts: 36 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Compak k3
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:06am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
Thank you all for your input. I put everything in consideration but still purchased a Jura ENA 9 for the convenience. As of now, I don't like the default settings so I will have to play with it. I hope everything turns out ok otherwise I'll end up getting of the the three you guys recommended with a PID and a nice grinder. You guys are awesome.
As for lifetime warranty, I confirmed and there is no such thing...
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:07am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
I hope you took the advice and bought it at Costco so you can return it if you never get it to make good coffee. Please keep us updated with your experiences with it. I believe your input could help the next person make a more informed choice.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
On a geologic time scale, all human technology is disposable. So, the decisions we make are always a compromise between convenience, quality, price, etc. Even my Caravel, approximately 50 years old and probably the simplest possible espresso technology, has gone down (split element), and I'm having to have a part fabricated to restore it to function, as there are no parts available. So it, too, was ultimately a 'disposable' machine in that sense. Luckily, there's a guy in Hungary who's making replacement elements (and I can get a 110v version, to boot), but if there wasn't, I'd have to consider shelving it and just admiring it as the fine piece of Italian Moderno design that it is.
Sometimes, we here, in all our geekiness, fall very easily into the "what works for us is mandatory for you" mindset. If I had actually paid that any mind to that when I first started hanging out around here, I would most likely never have moved as far into coffee as I have. If somebody wants to start with a super-automatic, that's great - it'll make better coffee than they've been drinking, most likely – and their palate and interests may deepen and develop over time, as mine did. We should probably concentrate more on helping steer them to the super-automatic that's going to make the best coffee, rather than berate them about having made the decision that, for the moment, convenience trumps perfection.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:50am Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
I thought orphan espresso had those caravel parts...
If this were my forum I would make a super auto it's own section and then maybe we could get people that really like those machines together. Right now we are mixing geek and connivance only and I think it frustrates both sides. I really think we need a "Before you post a buying machine thread/FAQ" sticky on this forum. I would be willing to write it if someone will sticky it. I think people are not seeing the article that Mark wrote until we direct them to it.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,642 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 2:11pm Subject: Re: Suggestions on what machine to buy?
You are right, most people go straight to the forums and ask the same questions that have been asked countless times, they do it because it concerns very common, basic information. It is true that the how to buy an espresso machine is a great information piece but most new people do not go to the FAQ or instructional section until they are directed there, sad but true.
That is not to say that they should not ask questions, they should but if people start at the beginning rather than the middle, less, very basic questions would be asked.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Momentary thread derail - Orphan has gaskets, seals, etc., but not heating elements. In theory, I could buy bendable heating element and bend my own, assuming I could either find the right ceramic insulators or salvage the ones from my current burner. As I do not, at present, have any sort of workshop, I've got to let somebody else do the job.
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