calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 8,265 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 6:01am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 vs. Cellini Evoluzione...?
I have seen several Rocket machines and they all were well built and solid. I have not seen the new one referenced here but most things when first sold have some issues and I can't see why an espresso machine would be any different. There is an old saw about not buying the first year of a car model manufacture, it exists for a reason, most first year manufacture has some issues.
Also, while some people who have just bought something seek out forums and tell everyone how much they love the product, most people just enjoy the product and remain silent. Most people who have issues will seek out others to converse with so you will have a much higher percentage of negative comments VS positive ones though the reverse may be the truth. Just saying.... YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:45am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 vs. Cellini Evoluzione...?
Wow what is going on with this machine? So many people are having issues even across other forums. That's a lot of money for a machine to be plagued with problems like this one, odd considering their other models are solid.
We had tried with Rocket to resolve one issue for 2 years. Since they did not listen, we dropped the Rocket line as of January 1, 2012. Do not be surprised to see other dealers follow suit at some point due to these other issues. I am personally not surprised issues are creeping up.
And, yes, there are "early adopters' of new products. In some cases, dealers want to be the first out of the gate with a new product not realizing there may be a potential disaster waiting to happen. This happened with us when Vibiemme launched their first double boiler machine and we broke our rule of pre-testing new units with newer technologies and designs. We learned our lesson the hard way. We try to stay course and test machines before reselling them. Like with the Cuadra, we tested this machine in-house for 6 months before reselling them. This is only one reason why we offer select models from select manufacturers. When a manufacturer is not willing to make improvements that we request for the best interest of our clients, we do not hesitate to drop the manufacturer. In the past month, we had 2 previously dropped suppliers visit us to get our business back by making the necessary changes. Unfortunately, Rocket was not one of them.
Sincerely, Jim Piccinich Business Partner 1st-line Equipment, LLC www.1st-line.com
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 12:18pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 vs. Cellini Evoluzione...?
Jim, I respect what you've done for the community, but you seem to have an agenda against Rocket. After you stopped carrying Rocket, Chris Coffee immediately picked up the Rocket line. Rocket's other distributors are among the best in the business. So, although you may not be happy with Rocket there are plenty of reputable distributors backing Rocket.
There certainly have been some launch problems with the R58. Given Rocket's history of quality and customer service, there's every reason to believe these issues will be addressed. To remind everyone, both La Marzocco and Izzo have had problems with their double boiler machines. Early adopters have to take some risk and be patient when purchasing new machines.
Rocket seems to be holding further shipments to fix the issues. Although it would have been nice if the launch had gone smoothly, all Rocket can do now is to address the problems and get the next shipment right.
Bgosselin Senior Member Joined: 26 Jul 2012 Posts: 51 Location: Canada,quebec Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Sep 2, 2012, 9:02am Subject: Re: Rocket R58 vs. Cellini Evoluzione...?
I spoke with Chris at CC and his comments echos Jim comment. Rocket doesn't seem to listen to the distributor in north america and modify some design flaws that make there machine not travelling well.
I love mine and it arrive in good condition but if it can't be shp via common carrier without beeing damage I understand why some distributors won't keep the line. A real pitty cause the exterior design is gorgeous.
chriscoffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Mar 2002 Posts: 246 Location: Albany Expertise: Professional
Posted Sun Sep 2, 2012, 4:25pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 vs. Cellini Evoluzione...?
I did NOT say they could not ship via common carrier. I said they can not ship via UPS or FedEx. Common carrier is expensive and not very convenient for consumers if they ever need to ship their machine anywhere for service. Seven of the ten I received got destroyed when shipped UPS no matter how much packing we used in addition to double boxing.
Chris Nachtrieb, Pres. Chris' Coffee Service, Inc.
Vacumatic Senior Member Joined: 17 Aug 2012 Posts: 2 Location: San Leandro, CA (Northern California) Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione v2 Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Type A... Drip: Kitchenaid
Posted Sun Sep 2, 2012, 4:55pm Subject: Re: Rocket R58 vs. Cellini Evoluzione...?
I would echo the concerns with UPS shipping on the Rocket. I ordered a Giotto Evoluzione about two weeks ago, and the one I received had a smashed in back panel. That panel is lightweight metal and it was pushed in enough to dimple out in the lower right back corner where it was deformed by pressing against an internal part. Having seen pictures of the V1 box insulation and having seen up close the V2 insulation, I think the former was better. The replacement was shipped exactly the same and had the same box damage, but I was extremely lucky that this Rocket was not damaged; the lack of damage was not due to good packing from Rocket or from the shipper. I had it held at UPS to minimize handling of it. The whole experience was pretty stressful. My Giotto is perfect though.
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