RNAV Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Posts: 24 Location: Fayette'nam, NC Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Lever
Posted Sun Aug 19, 2012, 5:05pm Subject: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
Hello,
Been lurking for a while, but this is my first post here. First, thank you all for the plethora of knowledge you've provided on this site. It's been quite a help to me (especially today, as I completely dismantled and re-assembled my Breville because it stopped flowing water through the group head).
To the point: I'm looking to upgrade. I've been looking at a brand new Rancilio Silvia V3, which seems to be the standard. However, I've found a guy that's selling a good-working-condition La Pavoni Pub 2 for $450 (including a water softener system). According to him, the only thing not working is the pressure gauge. I've attached some images of the machine for reference. So my question for you folks is which should I get?
My usage of the machine will consist of pulling two double shots every morning, and steaming some milk. That's about it.
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 464 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 1:51am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
RNAV Said:
To the point: I'm looking to upgrade. I've been looking at a brand new Rancilio Silvia V3, which seems to be the standard. However, I've found a guy that's selling a good-working-condition La Pavoni Pub 2 for $450
Oh WOW.. I would say that either one of these would be a significant step up from what you had. However, I'm going to seriously recommend the Silvia over the La Pavoni, here's why....
The La Pavoni is a commercial machine. Especially considering it has two groups. They can see a hard life in their many years of daily service. You have to keep in mind that a machine like that is designed to bang off at least 120 drinks an hour with an experienced barista behind the helm. Whereas, I'd be lucky to get six drinks an hour off off of my own Silvia!
You see, the Rancilio Silvia V3 has got a reservoir and runs off a standard 120 volt 15 amp circuit. Whereas, the La Pavoni requires a directly plumbed in water connection and a dedicated 120 Volt 20 Amp circuit. 20 Amp plugs look very different and require a different outlet. You need 12 gauge wiring for a 20 amp circuit, so you'd have to get an electrician to wire in a new circuit for the machine. You can't run 20 amps on 14 gauge wire safely.
These two machines are designed with two very different uses in mind. The La Pavoni would be total and complete overkill for what you need.
I would say that by the time you pay an electrician to wire up an outlet for the machine and get a plumber to plumb in the machine, you'll have a machine which will far exceed the cost of a Silvia to get up and running. Not to mention, this is assuming that the machine doesn't need any repairs.
There is a possibility that the non-working pressure gauge could be sign of other issues with the machine, I would be very leery of it, could be like buying a used car. You'll have good warranty support with the Silvia (One year) and it will be much more suitable for the kind of use you need.
OK, What's got me scratching my head is the unofficial looking "1500" pencilled in marker on this sticker.
Big red flag here. Has the machine been modified? If so, by whom? How? Is it documented? If you can't answer those questions, stay away!
The maximum safe current draw on a 120 volt 15 amp circuit is about 1440 watts. (120 volts x (80 percent of 15 amps)) Whereas the maximum safe current draw on a 120 volt 20 amp circuit is 1920 watts.
In theory, turning on a 20 amp machine on a 15 amp circuit would pop the breaker fairly quickly. If the wattage has been reduced, my only question would be, how severely has the performance of the machine been compromised?
Like I said in my last post, get the Silvia and you won't be sorry! At least you'll get a warranty.
RNAV Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Posts: 24 Location: Fayette'nam, NC Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Lever
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 6:23am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
Thank you very much for the reply. The guy said it'd run on a normal 120V household outlet; I didn't realize that would require me to have a dedicated outlet installed.
Yeah, the 1500 has me concerned as well. I can plumb-in the unit no problem, but it sounds like the potential for this to be a waste of money is very high, while the potential for this to end up being a great deal is very low. And yes, it would be overkill for my purposes.
Again, thanks for the reply and sharing your knowledge with me. You probably saved me a lot of frustration (and a very unhappy wife to boot).
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 6:49am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
If there's no chance that you will ever feel the need to upgrade from the very basic capabilities and capacity of the Silvia, it's probably your wisest choice. One has to only spend a short time reading threads here, though, before realizing that a goodly number of people feel the urge to upgrade from Silvia, some fairly quickly.
I would be on the phone or email with 1st Line in NJ, who sells the Pub 2, and ask them some questions. Since you have the serial number, there's even a reasonably good chance that they may have sold the machine originally and may have some idea of its hisstory. 1500 watts is what the Pub 2 is rated at, so the inked in rating is probably not a modification. $450 is about 10% of what one goes for new, so, if it's currently working, it's a steal. And pressure gauges are not a difficult repair.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,684 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 8:51am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
If you have the room and a circuit that can handle it, my choice hands down would be the Pub. Sylvia is way over priced for the value you get, the Pub is under priced for the quality of machine it is. It is volumetric dosing, it is plumb in, it has a much better pump, it has unlimited steam, in short, it is everything you will want to upgrade to in the future for a price of a basic starter machine.
If you EVER want to make more than one drink at a time and wait while you do make even that one drink, now would be the time to jump on that Pub, provided it is in good shape. SBDU machines are a real pain in the back side when it comes to having a guest over and you both want to drink coffee, then there are the issues of what do you do first? Make the espresso and wait for the machine to get hot for steaming while your espresso cools or do you steam your milk first and let it cool while you cool the machine to pull your shots? That is the daily choice of a SBDU while a machine like the pub, lets you steam and pull shots at the same time. Not to mention you will be MUCH more consistent with the Pub than you will EVER be with the Sylvia. I am speaking from the point of view that I currently own both a PID'd Sylvia and several commercial espresso machines both single and dual group.
YMMV but for MY money, if the Pub is in good shape, you have the room and an outlet that will handle it (it need not be dedicated but it helps) it isn't even a decision as to which machine to get.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 464 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 4:12pm Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
I'm afraid that I'm being humbled here... but I'm learning a lot! :-)
GVDub Said:
If there's no chance that you will ever feel the need to upgrade from the very basic capabilities and capacity of the Silvia, it's probably your wisest choice.
Couldn't be wiser words. Slightly more expensive Lelit machines than the one suggested in the thread have a built-in PID for better temperature stability and a pressure gauge. I was considering buying one of these as a starter machine over the Silvia due to these features.
I googled the specifications for this machine, so I was under the impression that a 20 amp circuit was mandatory... what I do know. :-) I'm not an expert on these machines. Perhaps this machine was built to customer order?
GVDub Said:
$450 is about 10% of what one goes for new, so, if it's currently working, it's a steal. And pressure gauges are not a difficult repair.
Agreed. Just be aware of the hidden costs. If you are willing to go into this, be aware that the plumbing and electrical work could easily push this machine into the ~$1000 area. (Approximately) Of course, this all depends if you do the work yourself, know a good friend who can do it, etc... and if the machine needs any repairs. (Outside of the pressure gauge needing replacement.)
One thing I can certainly say about the Silvia or Lelit over this machine is that considerably less counter space is being used and they're both very portable machines.
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 4:33pm Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
You can use a Shur-Flo or other portable pump system to fill from a 5-gallon bottle. Lots of people do. Or pick up a DIY tap kit designed for feeding the icemaker in a refrigerator. That'll work, too. Drain into another 5-gallon and empty it regularly. Some espresso carts use similar machines with no plumbing connections other than those, and they work fine for that.
The Behmor 1600 is rated at about 1600 watts, and runs fine on a regular 15 amp circuit, providing your fridge, AC and microwave aren't also on the same circuit :-). At 1st Line, the current Pub 2 is listed as 1500W and running on a standard 120v 15A circuit.
Look at it this way - it's an opportunity to pick up a machine that might very well last you for the rest of your life. It's certainly capable of making excellent espresso and will steam like nobody's business if you like milk drinks. And, in the event it ends up being too much for you, you can most likely resell it for more than you paid for it, at the price you quoted.
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 4:50pm Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
I would run it past your wife. Footprint is a biggie for limited counter space. Silvia is a small machine and looks real nice beside a vario grinder. I had a silvia for over 5 years and i loved it. That used machine looks pretty dated IMO but its your call. With a good grinder either will give you good shots assuming the used one is still operational.
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