RNAV Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Posts: 24 Location: Fayette'nam, NC Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Lever
Posted Thu Aug 23, 2012, 10:36am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
calblacksmith Said:
OH, BTW and on a completely different subject. I was in Ft Bragg from Jan -76 to Aug -78. I bet things have changed! I know the post used to be open, meaning that you, me, anyone could drive on or off at any time with no guards or permits required. I am sure that it is different now!
The post is still open, much to the dismay of the AF since the Army took control of the airfield with the finalization of BRAC. Now the only portion of Bragg that's actually secure is the immediate areas around the airfield and stuff in the range. I think it's highly stupid, but then, I'm not in charge. I do, however, think this will be changing -- they're working on re-routing 87 around Bragg, and installing gates on the north and south sides of 87. Whether or not they'll actually restrict access to the general public after this remains to be seen.
zedex Said:
Ok. after you buy the silvia, you probably have to pay some kind of tax, plus shipping. Then you will need a tamper etc etc. Its gonna cost you close to what the used La nuova will be. Doooooo IT!!!! :)
All valid points. Unfortunately, my wife is my CFO (since I'm gone so frequently, it just makes sense), and she nixed that. Looks like the Silvia, or cheaper, will be my next purchase. Although it seems that nearly anything would be an upgrade from what I currently have, right? :)
The La Nuova Cuadra is a great entry level starter HX machine. I've looked at this machine too, they all seem to sell somewhere in the very low $1000's here. The fact that it has an E61 brew group is a bonus, usually those command a premium!
The one considerable advantage that SBDU machines have over HX or DB machines is their price point. Since I'm the only one in the house which drinks coffee and I usually only bang off 1-2 drinks a day, it's no big deal to have to wait, but I'll agree that in the morning I just want to flush and go instead of having to wait for the machine to warm up for steam and to cool down for a shot.
The Oscar came in roughly about the same amount as the La Nuova from a pricing perspective, but I didn't like that it was lacking a boiler pressure gauge or that it has an all plastic cabinet, the La Nuova seems to be like it's better bang for the buck than an Oscar.
Between the Rocky and the Silvia, my wife doesn't mind the amount of space they use up on the counter. We went to go to Williams Sonoma and she thought the Breville Double Boiler machine was too big of a machine! (It's not, but the Silvia is smaller.)
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 464 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 12:00am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
sn_85 Said:
If you look at some of the better setups on this forum you'll notice that they use commercial gear. Just because something is a commercial grade machine that doesn't exclude it from being used in a the home environment.
Agreed. It seems to me that the major differences between a home/prosumer and commercial machine are:
- Most home/prosumer machines run on a standard 15 amp 120 volt circuit. Some higher end prosumer machines which can take advantage of a 120 volt 20 amp circuits are switchable into 15 amp mode. Whereas, most commercial machines are designed for either a fixed 120 volt 20 amp operation or they are designed to work on a 220 volt circuit. (Especially ones with large boilers.) - You'll only see reservoir operation and self-contained drip trays on home and prosumer machines. Many prosumer machines have the option to be directly plumbed in and have a drip tray drain. Commercial machines are always plumbed in. Of course, there are workarounds to that. (ie. Using a bottle and a Flo-Jet pump.) This is a testament to the number of drinks they can bang off quickly. Many members have mentioned to me that to have a machine which you never have to fill up using a pitcher and never have to drain the drip tray is an incredibly awesome convenience. - Commercial machines eat up counterspace. Counter height isn't something which is considered (Like you experienced) but it is considered with a home/prosumer machine. This is why I don't have a Rancilio S1 sitting in my kitchen! :) - ... and like what sn_85 said, they're designed for an entirely different standard of durability and performance over home/prosumer machines.
sn_85 Said:
They are commercial grade grinders that are built like tanks.
The one biggest thing I've noticed between commercial grinders (Despite their size) and home/prosumer grinders is their duty cycle. They're like a paper shredder.. Use them too much and they'll overheat. Fortunately, I think most prosumer grinders can handle a decent amount of company in a home without overheating. Home grinders on the other hand are designed for low-duty situations only. (Unless someone on here has a different opinion on that?)
sn_85 Said:
In fact it actually might be a little more difficult and finicky to use.
I agree that the lower end machines require more skill and knowledge to use than higher end machines. It's not as bad as you'd think. For Lattes and Cappuccinos, you can get away with murder. Making straight espresso though requires considerably more care and skill. It frustrates me a little that I can pull two shots, exactly the same grind, dose and tamp, yet I end up with two shots which taste completely different, even though I've followed the concepts behind temperature surfing. I'm sure it'll come with time, but I find it to be annoying.
sn_85 Said:
that's why you see the prosumer machines like the Quick Mills, Rockets, Alex, Nuova Simonelli use commercial grade components.
It kind of blew me away how identical the brew group on the Silvia is to the Epoca. Same Portafilters, Same dispersion screen, etc, etc. The fact they also use commercial grade switches, maybe it was a cost savings measure to keep the price of the machine down for their supply management. Now it makes me wonder how universal E61 group heads are across machines.
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 7:22am Subject: Re: Need advice: used La Pavoni Pub 2 vs. new Rancilio Silvia V3
[quote591300
Making straight espresso though requires considerably more care and skill. It frustrates me a little that I can pull two shots, exactly the same grind, dose and tamp, yet I end up with two shots which taste completely different, even though I've followed the concepts behind temperature surfing. I'm sure it'll come with time, but I find it to be annoying.
Thats Silvia. If you did not scratch your head the same or the stars did not line up as 10 minutes ago,different ball game. Your grinder seriously though is probably half of it.
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