qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 455 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 12:20am Subject: E61 brew group on commercial machines
I don't want to start a flamewar, but this has been bothering me for a little while.
Why is it one rarely ever sees an E61 Brew Group on a commercial machine today?
Every single cafe I've ever been to either has a hidden brew group or in some of the more upscale cafes, they'll use a spring-loaded lever machine.
I know that The Faema E61 Legend is one of the few commercial machines still selling with the E61 group, but I've never been to a cafe which had one.
It makes me wonder why they're so much more prolific in prosumer machines.
Heck, when I think about it, even the highest end Speedster, Slayer, etc machines don't even use an E61 brew group. Do they use any principles from the E61 brew group though? (ie. Thermosyphon)
Maybe it's just a stupid question, but is there a cafe around where you live or know about which still uses an E61 based commercial machine?
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,603 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 1:21am Subject: Re: E61 brew group on commercial machines
Well, besides the Faema E61 Legend, Rocket Espresso's Linea Professionale or the Elektra Sixties and Elektra Classic also have E61 brew groups, for example, to name but a few.
A lot of other commercial espresso machines have the brew group connected directly to the boiler. Some people claim that this leads to a clearer separation of aromas, but also to less body.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
alanfrew Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 596 Location: Melbourne Expertise: Professional
Posted Fri Aug 24, 2012, 1:31am Subject: Re: E61 brew group on commercial machines
You need to know where to look. Machines from laScala, Vibiemme, Cimbali, Wega, VFA, Expobar and many others may have E-61's under the hood, but all that's visible on the barista side is the bottom of the group and the electronic touchpads. Their mechanical complexity can mean that they're a b**** to maintain if they are surrounded by a shroud stuffed full of electronics, so they've tended to fall out of favour.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,603 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 6:05am Subject: Re: E61 brew group on commercial machines
qualin Said:
... Heck, when I think about it, even the highest end Speedster, Slayer, etc machines don't even use an E61 brew group. Do they use any principles from the E61 brew group though? (ie. Thermosyphon) ...
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 7:35am Subject: Re: E61 brew group on commercial machines
There are dozens of machines still employing the classic E61, and hundreds more which use (for lack of a better term) a "modified" or "proprietary" version of the E61, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
But at the same time, you have to keep in mind that Faema developed the E61 in . . . 1961! It's a design that is over 50 years old, and we still talk about it, praise it, and use it every day! So while it's a tried-and-true design, still in widespread use today, there has also been half a century's worth of tinkering, re-designing, improving upon the original.
E61 machines still in use today? At least three restaurants and one café/roaster nearby still use Faema E61 machines, and there are a number of sources to still buy new ones. Vibiemme HX machines have "true" E61 group heads. So do Ala di Vittoria "la Valentina" machines, and similar models sold under different names.
Well, I'm not Jason but I too am an idiot if that helps lol. At any rate, he was referring to a "true" e61 as one designed as the original design. There are some that have a basic similarity but aren't in fact the same faema e61 design.
For instance, my Astra has an e61 group, but is different in that it is switch activated versus lever actuated and it also doesn't have a spring loaded chamber used as a mechanical preinfusion.
stefano65 Senior Member Joined: 30 Oct 2004 Posts: 1,334 Location: Eugene OR Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Vibiemme,Elektra, Grinder: Vario,Macap, Vac Pot: not Drip: not Roaster: not
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 2:31pm Subject: Re: E61 brew group on commercial machines
In the 70's or early 80's when faema was going belly up, Vibiemme bought the right to use the original grouphead patent (Faema has as well) Vibiemme modify it/ customized it so that's the basic story most of "other" e-61 groups are very similar but not the exact one see pictures here bottom of the page http://www.espressocare.com/VibiemmeDetails.html
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