greensticker Senior Member Joined: 26 Aug 2012 Posts: 2 Location: New Zealand Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Aug 26, 2012, 5:28pm Subject: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
Hi, I am looking for a Semi Auto machine with a decent steamer and control over the extraction i.e. I want to be able to choose when the water stops instead of it just hapening automatically. I have worked in coffee for 3 years and want to buy a machine for at home so I dont get rusty while I save for my coffee van. I am looking to spend around $600 - $700 (NZ$). I have had a look at a few but dont realy know what to look out for. here are a few I have found within my price range. Any feedback would be great.
Breville BES820 Professional 800
Breville BES840 The Infuser
Breville BES860 Fresca
DeLonghi ECO310W Icona
I am also looking at these on Trademe (our version of Ebay)
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,314 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Aug 26, 2012, 7:24pm Subject: Re: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
If I were wanting to start a coffee van I would really consider used commercial machines and grinders. NS Oscar used is portable commercial rated machine that used price is a real bargain. It is often used for catering, so I would think a better investment for you than anything on your list. You could use it as a back up or low volume starter machine very easily. You could do coffee bars at parties and weddings with it to help you towards your goal.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
greensticker Senior Member Joined: 26 Aug 2012 Posts: 2 Location: New Zealand Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Aug 26, 2012, 8:52pm Subject: Re: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
I have considered this but my plans are to buy a coffee van that has already been set up. This machine is realy just a cheapo that will let me practice my latte art and give me some control over extraction so I can get a feel for the coffee I will be working with in the future. My city has been pretty decimated by the eathquake so these pop up coffee places are doing pretty well. I will think about making more of an investment to get to my goal faster though.
I would personally go to a retail store and look at one in person though if you can. If I had to choose, I'd probably pick the Breville BES840 over the Acaso dream.
The Delonghi and the KitchenAid are junk, don't waste your money on them.
If you want to practice like a professional, you need a machine which professional components in it. If you play with consumer machines, that will be just it, you will be playing, not learning. If I were you, I'd save your pennies for a machine considerably higher in budget. I'm not sure if you can buy LeLit machines there but I bet you could get your hands on a Rancilio Silvia!
IMHO, if you want to start a coffee van, you might as well buy a machine which could be durable and dependable enough to act as a backup machine in case your primary machine dies. That way you get the best of both worlds and you can most likely write it off as a business expense instead of wasting your money. (I'm not sure how it works in NZ though.)
I mean, if you are blowing $750NZ already, why not save your pennies and buy something a bit nicer for double the amount which will last you and do a better job in helping you learn?
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,314 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sun Aug 26, 2012, 11:54pm Subject: Re: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
Point 1. Spending your money on a home machine will not hone your skills at pulling shots. Most home machines can't steam very well at all so most will not help you with latte art.
Point 2. Spending your money on a used commercial machine that can be used at home will keep your skills up.
Most importantly:
Point 3. If you spend your money on used commercial gear, you might be able to write it off as a business expense as suggested, use it as a back up if you main stuff goes down and even make money catering coffee at parties/events right now. None of which you can do with a home machine for the same or even more money than a used machine in the class I am suggesting.
Used commercial gear is often of better quality and cheaper than new high end home gear. And you can turn around and sell it for about the price your bought it for assuming you got a good price and it still works. This is not true for new home gear. (i.e. If I buy a used 350$ Super jolly and I use it a year I can turn around and sell it for 350$ fast but if I buy a silver painted plastic home espresso machine and use it a year I will not be able to sell it for more than half if I am lucky or find someone gullible)
If you insist on buying a cheap home machine after telling us your goal is to hone skills to have a coffee van, then good luck to you.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 463 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 12:11am Subject: Re: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
Coffeenoobie Said:
Point 1. Spending your money on a home machine will not hone your skills. Most home machines can't steam very well at all so most will not help you with latte art.
I would agree. If I was going to do latte art professionally, the least I would want is a dual boiler machine. You need a machine with a boiler that has thermal inertia. While a SBDU machine may steam adequately for home use, a professional machine will steam very differently. It takes me about a minute to steam 6 oz of milk with my machine at home. In comparison, a commercial dual boiler machine with decently sized boilers can heat up the same amount of milk in roughly 10 seconds.
Coffeenoobie Said:
If you insist on buying a cheap home machine after this, then good luck to you.
More to the point, if you want to burn your money and learn your lesson the hard way, then have at it. You get what you pay for. I've noticed a lot of commercial machines floating around on the used market which are priced somewhere around a low to mid-end prosumer machine. I've found that multi-group machines are cheaper because you need a high wattage line and a plumb in connection to make them work, something a consumer machine doesn't require.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,661 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 5:51am Subject: Re: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
I pretty much agree with most everything said except for the need of a DB to get quality steamed milk. HX machines have been the work horses of industry for decades and there is no reason to think they are any less in the steaming arena than a DB. There are differences between HX and DB but one is not "better" than the other, they are just different.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Thu Aug 30, 2012, 7:10am Subject: Re: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
I am a good example of this.. I plan to open a cafe in the future. I was able to get a commercial 2 group for only $700, my Macap MX for only $350 and my VFA grinder for free! Used machines are all over the web and Kajiji. Most are anywhere from only $500-$1500 for the big 2 and 3 group HX machines! At home I use a little Delonghi EC155. Sure it makes good drinks but I know I can't get my practice on this machine. Due to my living situation plumbing in a commercial machine in next to impossible so I will be buying the closest home machine I can afford to a commercial. Most likely an Oscar or Rocket. I agree fully with coffeenoobie having a home commercial machine would save your business if your main machine went down. You would also save money as well on not having to rent a loner machine until repairs are made.
Also I just remembered!! Orphan espresso's Youtube channel has a video on how to use a pump and a 5gal water tank to supply a commercial machine. :) I will post it when I find it.
Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BGfQVq6Dnw&feature=plcp
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,608 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Aug 30, 2012, 7:19am Subject: Re: Help! I need some advice on purchasing a Semi Automatic Machine.
calblacksmith Said:
... HX machines have been the work horses of industry for decades and there is no reason to think they are any less in the steaming arena than a DB ...
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