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Rotary vs vibratory
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Rotary vs...  
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ohills
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 16
Location: oceanside,ca
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione V2
Grinder: Vario
Posted Sat Sep 1, 2012, 3:01pm
Subject: Rotary vs vibratory
 

I'm still trying to decide on a hx machine and have a question.  All things being equal, is a rotary pump worth the added expense over a vibratory one.  I'm really interested in the Rockets and like the added features of the evoluzione over the premium plus v2.  I don't need the plumb option now but it might come in handy in the future.
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Bgosselin
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 51
Location: Canada,quebec
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 1, 2012, 5:56pm
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

Noise?

Vib pump are usually louder. There is a video on youtube that show the noise difference between the rocket vib and rotary pump.  It make a difference early in the morning.  But if you grind your bean everyone in the house would be up anyway. :)

Click Here (www.youtube.com)
The difference seem way bigger at 6am at home.

Vib are cheaper to replace if broken.  Both can produce good coffee.

I like the plumb option.  Those machine are heavy and if there place on the counter top below some cabinet there anoying to fill.
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dsblv
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Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Bellevue, WA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: MACAP MC4
Posted Sat Sep 1, 2012, 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

I picked the Rocket Evo over the Premium for the plumbable drip tray and the rotary pump.  Being able to drain the drip tray is a bigger plus than you'd think.

Rotary and vibe pumps produce the same quality espresso.  The rotary pump is quieter and is more durable than a vibe pump.  Vibe pumps have a limited duty cycle to avoid overheating.  With a rotary pump, you can backflush the machine without worrying about the pump's run time.
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,427
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Sat Sep 1, 2012, 8:10pm
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

The E-61, plumbed, rotary, allows manual pre-infusion for the length of time you choose. If you do the plumbing it adds about 100-150 in parts if you use a softener and John Guest fittings. Mine is plumbed into a two gallon bottle, but it is still a relief to not have to fill the reservoir and not have to handle a filled drip tray.

 
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russel
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russel
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 449
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Conti Princess 2grp, GS/3...
Grinder: Super Caimanos x2, Forte BG,...
Drip: V60, Kalita Wave, Clever,...
Posted Sat Sep 1, 2012, 9:17pm
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

I would vote for rotary pump.  The noise is a lot more pleasant, and on an HX you will hear that noise often if you make more than one drink at a time.

Calculate the price difference as a percentage of the purchase cost of the vibe version.  This will give you a better idea of how much more you're paying.  After that you can consider how long you think you will have the machine.  Imagine your choice is $1500 for a vibe or $2000 for a rotary.  If you are kind of person who can keep a machine for 10 years, I would  say that the %33 price premium is worth it.  At 5 years you're paying $100 a year for the noise reduction, and I might be on the fence if I didn't really dislike the vibe noise.  If you're the kind of person who changes machines more frequently, I would say that the price premium isn't worth it, and would recommend picking up the vibe version or a used rotary with a solid quality reputation for a bit less than the $1500 you would have paid for the new vibe (in this example).

As far as pluming goes, I think that having the option to go both ways is great if you can.  You never know where life and upgraditus will take you, and a tank option might just help you hold on to the machine, or make it easier to sell if you have to.

EDIT:  If you are in Oceanside CA, I would take a long look at the Astra GA that's on the BST right now and just a little bit south of you.  I have a GAP and I love it.  I like it more than the Cimbali Junior D/1 that I'm rebuilding.  They are big (prosumer e-61s would sort of fit inside if that makes sense), but the performance is great, and the service can't be beat if you live within a car's ride of The Valley.

"SOLD: Astra Gourmet Automatic Plumbed; San Diego"
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Bgosselin
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Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 51
Location: Canada,quebec
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 2, 2012, 6:41am
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

Very informative video.

Rotary vs vibratory.  

Click Here (www.youtube.com)
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qualin
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qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Mon Sep 3, 2012, 12:39am
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

There are some people who say that a rotary pump machine produces a "purer" shot than a vibratory pump machine.
I personally think it's hogwash. I'm sure some of the other more fanatical forum members would disagree with me. :-) :-)

It is clear that vibratory pump machines are cheaper than their rotary cousins, but they're also more compact, only
because rotary pumps consume a lot more space. I wish I could say they're also cheaper to replace, but I don't know.
I've noticed that in the reservoir versions of machines, they use a vibratory pump, but plumbed in machines consuming
the same amount of space use a rotary pump.

You'll also notice in the video that the guy mentioned the number of shots per hour. Vibratory pumps have a lower
duty cycle which is suitable for prosumer use, but not for commercial use. (I can't think of any commercial machine which
uses a vibratory pump.)

As for their reliability, well, what comes to my mind are fish tank pumps, which are vibratory. Mind you, they pump air
and not water, but I had one which ran for years and years and years.

Personally, if I lived in Europe, there is no way in heck I'd want a machine with a Vibratory pump, because I really
can't stand the sound of 50 hz. A vibratory pump sounds so different at 60 hz, a bit more pleasant.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 857
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Mon Sep 3, 2012, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

ohills Said:

All things being equal, is a rotary pump worth the added expense over a vibratory one.

Posted September 1, 2012 link

All things are never equal, unfortunately.

I believe that the difference in shots produced by a vibe machine and a rotary machine is negligible if the rampup-to-pressure times are equivalent. In other words, if the flow from the rotary is restricted (via gicleur or other means) to match the vibe pump, I don't think one can tell the difference in the resulting shots.

The rampup time from an UNrestricted rotary is very fast; this will force one to grind more coarsely and change the shot characteristics.

As Randy says, one of the advantages of a plumbed-in rotary is the ability to preinfuse at line pressure. This technique allows one to grind finer, and is extremely helpful in trying to coax sweet, balanced shots from lighter-roasted coffees.

Everyone remarks about the more pleasing sound produced by rotary pumps. What is not often said is that the annoying buzz emitted by vibe pumps eventually causes the user to go insane. This claim is easily verified by perusing the amateur forums.

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,427
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Mon Sep 3, 2012, 11:48am
Subject: Re: Rotary vs vibratory
 

andys Said:

Everyone remarks about the more pleasing sound produced by rotary pumps. What is not often said is that the annoying buzz emitted by vibe pumps eventually causes the user to go insane. This claim is easily verified by perusing the amateur forums.

Posted September 3, 2012 link

This just isn't right. How can someone with such insight and knowledge reflecting years of experience describe himself thusly:
   "Expertise: Just starting"


;-)


"I don't suffer from insanity. I am enjoying every minute of it."

 
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