wgalex Senior Member Joined: 12 Sep 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Constanta, Romania Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 3:27am Subject: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
The title basically tells the story. Me and my partner are opening up a coffee house soon and are looking into the best equipment as far as quality/maintenance/cost goes. We like the Andreja Premium but understand that it's a semi professional machine and are wondering - can it handle the job in a coffee house and make somewhere around 50-70 espressos/day ?
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,613 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 3:32am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
The machine might be up to it, especially when plumbed, but you should check if the warranty covers commercial use of the machine. There are single group machines that are strictly for use in a small restaurant or coffee shop like the San Marino Lisa Junior Automatic, for example. However, you might even fare better with a two group machine.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 5:43am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
Alex, Welcome. As Knobby said, it might be able to work for you and your volume really is more of a deciding factor. As he said, the is machine may be OK as an occasional drink machine in an eating establishment but personally, I would not think of using one as a main machine in a coffee shop, the ability of the machine to keep up with a service rush is highly doubtful, esp in the long run. Not to mention the time lost using a single group rather than a multiple group machine.
Don't forget, you are going to need at least two good espresso grinders in a coffee shop plus a good general purpose grinder for things like pour over or drip brewing.
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wgalex Senior Member Joined: 12 Sep 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Constanta, Romania Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 7:26am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
Hello again,
First of all thank you so much for your fast reply s and for welcoming me here. Thing is we are not opening up a eating establishment but a coffee house and , to be honest, between the renovation, roasting machine, espresso machine and grinders (plus tons of miscellaneous that would come to cost a small fortune) our financial situation does not look good. That's why we are looking for a small, cheap machine, to get things going. As soon as possible we will definitely upgrade. But, realisticly speaking, that won't come shorter than half a year from when we open . Atm our options as far as espresso machines goes are the QuickMill Andreja Premium, the Pasquini Livia 90 Semi-Auto or the LaSpaziale Vivaldi S1.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,613 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 7:37am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
Well, sometimes buying cheap means you'll buy twice in the end, spending more money. By the way, 50 to 70 espressi per day seems a low estimate for a coffee house to me.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 7:41am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
I cannot speak to the laws of Romania, but I know certain minimum standards must be met for a machine to be used in a commercial setting. If a machine cannot meet those minimum standards, the business cannot open using that equipment.
I would think long and hard about using an inadequate machine. The three machines you specifically cite are not commercial machines, and I cannot recommend them.
wgalex Senior Member Joined: 12 Sep 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Constanta, Romania Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 1:45am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
In that case could I change the topic of the thread into "Could you please recommend a professional espresso machine that would cost no more than 3000euros?" , that would really help :)
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 464 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 2:27am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
First of all, your post perplexes me. The espresso machine should be the center piece of your coffee shop, not an afterthought. This is a machine which will be making you money. It is a major source of income for your shop and should be treated as such.
Don't think of buying a machine outright, consider the idea of financing or leasing one. A commercial machine costing between $10,000 to $20,000 may seem like a completely extravagant expense, but financing it works out to roughly $350/month, like a car payment. A very busy machine will pay for itself quickly. Especially if you are getting decent foot traffic and develop a good customer base.
Lots of equipment supply places provide leasing or financing and that is what you should be considering. Why write off a $2,000 machine on your taxes when you can write off a $20,000 machine instead? A business accountant will tell you that you can write off at least 33 percent of all assets every year, at least you can in Canada. That's the beauty of financing as opposed to leasing.
70 drinks a day works out to 5 drinks per hour in a 12 hour day. Assuming that your espressos are selling for $3 each, that means that you expect $210 a day in income. There are on average about 22 working days in a month. That means only $4620 a month in income. Assuming you are paying one barista (Or yourself) $9/hr to work behind the counter, you would have to pay them $2376 in gross pay. That leaves you with $2244 left to pay for rent or mortgage, heat, A/C, electricity, business insurance, cleaning supplies, coffee supplies, equipment payments, debt payments, etc. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like a very feasible business plan to me.
I can certainly tell you in the video above, the three baristas in the video are doing a lot more than 70 drinks a day. You don't WANT them to wait on the machine, you want the machine to wait on them! Every single drink that machine makes is money in your pocket. Every second your barista has to wait for the machine has the potential to cost you money.
There are also insurance, liability and health considerations if a machine is to be used commercially. It should be NSF and UL certified for commercial use. Especially if food is being prepared on site. (I believe that roasting beans counts as preparation.) Do you really want to invest all of your life in your business only to have your machine burn the place down (Unlikely, but possible) because it was missing its UL/CSA certification?
You should also have a machine which is supportable, should it conk out. Unless you know how to strip down a machine completely, repair it and get it back up and running, your only option is to have a service contract with a business which has the knowledge and experience to service the machine properly. Many restaurant equipment supply places have a service department which can be dispatched should you have an issue. They understand that when you're not making money, they won't be either. If you have a service contract with them, you can let them worry about periodic descaling, maintenance, repairs, etc. I don't honestly believe you can get that with a small machine.
I've been thinking about it a while myself. If you don't have confidence in the volume of business which your shop will be doing, especially if you are planning on opening up a dedicated coffee shop, then you really have no business thinking about opening it. It is a LOT of hard work. My brother ran an internet cafe for a while, he was pulling 16 hour days to the point where he was sleeping on a cot in the back room until he could get his business up to speed enough that he could afford to hire someone. Are you willing to do this?
If I were a restaurant owner, I would certainly consider something like an Nuova Simonelli Appia or a Rancillio Epoca machine because being able to supply espresso based drinks is a huge plus. However, if they are the centerpiece of the business, they're not options. It's not just about saving money, it's also about impressing the customer. Every second a customer waits is the potential for lost income.
If you can't get financing, leasing, rental, etc, then perhaps buying a used multi-group commercial espresso machine is the only option. In which case, you need to be able to find someone who can service it and you need to budget for buying a backup machine as a cold spare in case the one you bought packs it in.
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 5:55am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
Bud, you might notice that the OP is in Romania, where average incomes in the restaurant/food service run well under $1000 USD/month gross with a heavy tax bite that makes that ~$450 net, and even for professionals, an income of $30,000/year, gross, is doing very well. Your figures might apply to North America, but not to the situation the OP is in.
Average price of a cappa in Romania, btw, is about 1.28 Euro or about $1.65 at current exchange.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,613 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 6:17am Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
wgalex Said:
In that case could I change the topic of the thread into "Could you please recommend a professional espresso machine that would cost no more than 3000euros?" , that would really help :)
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