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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > The QuickMill...  
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wgalex
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wgalex
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Constanta, Romania
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 3:27am
Subject: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

The title basically tells the story. Me and my partner are opening up a coffee house soon and are looking into the best equipment as far as quality/maintenance/cost goes. We like the Andreja Premium  but understand that it's a semi professional machine and are wondering - can it handle the job in a coffee house and make somewhere around 50-70 espressos/day ?

Thanks in advance, Alex
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
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Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 3:32am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

The machine might be up to it, especially when plumbed, but you should check if the warranty covers commercial use of the machine. There are single group machines that are strictly for use in a small restaurant or coffee shop like the San Marino Lisa Junior Automatic, for example. However, you might even fare better with a two group machine.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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calblacksmith
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Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 5:43am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

Alex,
Welcome.
As Knobby said, it might be able to work for you and your volume really is more of a deciding factor. As he said, the is machine may be OK as an occasional drink machine in an eating establishment but personally, I would not think of using one as a main machine in a coffee shop, the ability of the machine to keep up with a service rush is highly doubtful, esp in the long run. Not to mention the time lost using a single group rather than a multiple group machine.

Don't forget, you are going to need at least two good espresso grinders in a coffee shop plus a good general purpose grinder for things like pour over or drip brewing.

 
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Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

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wgalex
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wgalex
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
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Location: Constanta, Romania
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 7:26am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

Hello again,

First of all thank you so much for your fast reply s and for welcoming me here.
Thing is we are not opening up a eating establishment but a coffee house and , to be honest, between the renovation, roasting machine, espresso machine and grinders (plus tons of miscellaneous that would come to cost a small fortune) our financial situation does not look good. That's why we are looking for a small, cheap machine, to get things going. As soon as possible we will definitely upgrade. But, realisticly speaking, that won't come shorter than half a year from when we open .
Atm our options as far as espresso machines goes are the QuickMill Andreja Premium, the Pasquini Livia 90 Semi-Auto or the LaSpaziale Vivaldi S1.
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NobbyR
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Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 7:37am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

Well, sometimes buying cheap means you'll buy twice in the end, spending more money. By the way, 50 to 70 espressi per day seems a low estimate for a coffee house to me.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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JasonBrandtLewis
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Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 7:41am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

I cannot speak to the laws of Romania, but I know certain minimum standards must be met for a machine to be used in a commercial setting.  If a machine cannot meet those minimum standards, the business cannot open using that equipment.

I would think long and hard about using an inadequate machine.  The three machines you specifically cite are not commercial machines, and I cannot recommend them.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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wgalex
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wgalex
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Location: Constanta, Romania
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Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 1:45am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

In that case could I change the topic of the thread into "Could you please recommend a professional espresso machine that would cost no more than 3000euros?" , that would really help :)
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qualin
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qualin
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Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 2:27am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

First of all, your post perplexes me. The espresso machine should be the center piece of your coffee shop, not an afterthought.
This is a machine which will be making you money. It is a major source of income for your shop and should be treated as such.

Don't think of buying a machine outright, consider the idea of financing or leasing one. A commercial machine costing between
$10,000 to $20,000 may seem like a completely extravagant expense, but financing it works out to roughly $350/month, like a car
payment. A very busy machine will pay for itself quickly. Especially if you are getting decent foot traffic and develop a good customer base.

Lots of equipment supply places provide leasing or financing and that is what you should be considering. Why write off a $2,000
machine on your taxes when you can write off a $20,000 machine instead? A business accountant will tell you that you can write off
at least 33 percent of all assets every year, at least you can in Canada. That's the beauty of financing as opposed to leasing.

By the way, here's a wake up call. If your shop doesn't look like this in the mornings, you are doing it wrong.
Youtube link showing a busy shop in operation

70 drinks a day works out to 5 drinks per hour in a 12 hour day. Assuming that your espressos are selling for $3 each, that means that you
expect $210 a day in income. There are on average about 22 working days in a month. That means only $4620 a month in income.
Assuming you are paying one barista (Or yourself) $9/hr to work behind the counter, you would have to pay them $2376 in gross pay.
That leaves you with $2244 left to pay for rent or mortgage, heat, A/C, electricity, business insurance, cleaning supplies, coffee supplies,
equipment payments, debt payments, etc. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like a very feasible business plan to me.

I can certainly tell you in the video above, the three baristas in the video are doing a lot more than 70 drinks a day. You don't WANT them
to wait on the machine, you want the machine to wait on them! Every single drink that machine makes is money in your pocket. Every second
your barista has to wait for the machine has the potential to cost you money.

There are also insurance, liability and health considerations if a machine is to be used commercially. It should be NSF and UL certified
for commercial use. Especially if food is being prepared on site. (I believe that roasting beans counts as preparation.) Do you really want to
invest all of your life in your business only to have your machine burn the place down (Unlikely, but possible) because it was missing its UL/CSA certification?

You should also have a machine which is supportable, should it conk out. Unless you know how to strip down a machine completely, repair it
and get it back up and running, your only option is to have a service contract with a business which has the knowledge and experience to
service the machine properly. Many restaurant equipment supply places have a service department which can be dispatched should you have
an issue. They understand that when you're not making money, they won't be either. If you have a service contract with them, you can let
them worry about periodic descaling, maintenance, repairs, etc. I don't honestly believe you can get that with a small machine.

I've been thinking about it a while myself. If you don't have confidence in the volume of business which your shop will be doing, especially if
you are planning on opening up a dedicated coffee shop, then you really have no business thinking about opening it. It is a LOT of hard work.
My brother ran an internet cafe for a while, he was pulling 16 hour days to the point where he was sleeping on a cot in the back room until he
could get his business up to speed enough that he could afford to hire someone. Are you willing to do this?

If I were a restaurant owner, I would certainly consider something like an Nuova Simonelli Appia or a Rancillio Epoca machine because being
able to supply espresso based drinks is a huge plus. However, if they are the centerpiece of the business, they're not options. It's not just
about saving money, it's also about impressing the customer. Every second a customer waits is the potential for lost income.

If you can't get financing, leasing, rental, etc, then perhaps buying a used multi-group commercial espresso machine is the only option. In
which case, you need to be able to find someone who can service it and you need to budget for buying a backup machine as a cold spare in
case the one you bought packs it in.

Good luck.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 5:55am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

Bud, you might notice that the OP is in Romania, where average incomes in the restaurant/food service  run well under $1000 USD/month gross with a heavy tax bite that makes that ~$450 net, and even for professionals, an income of $30,000/year, gross, is doing very well. Your figures might apply to North America, but not to the situation the OP is in.

Average price of a cappa in Romania, btw, is about 1.28 Euro or about $1.65 at current exchange.
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,045
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 6:17am
Subject: Re: The QuickMill Andreja Premium for bar use
 

wgalex Said:

In that case could I change the topic of the thread into "Could you please recommend a professional espresso machine that would cost no more than 3000euros?" , that would really help :)

Posted September 13, 2012 link

For example the Faema Enova Compact S1 is available for 2,580.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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