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E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > E61 leakage on...  
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ammca66564
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 8, 2012, 5:42pm
Subject: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

I've just acquired a second-hand Quickmill Andreja.  I've got it on a timer to warm up in the morning, and when I get there after it's warmed up there's a good half a cup of water in the drip tray.  Also, it seems to take quite a long time to start moving water out the grouphead when I do the cooling flush.  

I'm thinking I need a grouphead rebuild - new seals, and I've picked up somewhere that the cams the pump lever presses against to actuate the valves can wear.  And there's dripping after I cut off the shot and remove the portafilter.  (Oh, and some small leakage where the pump lever goes into the grouphead when the lever is raised - but that seems like an easy one.)

So my question to the forum is this: what all is the problem here?  And what should I tell the espresso repair guy to do - do I just say complete rebuild of the grouphead and let him go at it?
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,355
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
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Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Sat Sep 8, 2012, 10:10pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

You could rebuild the group on your own. I do not know that machine, but if the leak is definitely coming from under the group through the exhaust port,*1 the problem is likely the exhaust valve's seal which is easy to replace one way or the other. If you think you would like to attack it, I have step-by-step instructions on my website.

*1 - if there are any other discharge points in the drip tray the leak could be from elsewhere.

 
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ammca66564
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 9, 2012, 5:54pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

Thanks so much, frcn!

I looked all over the place with Google for a page like your E61 overhaul page - I think my mistake was using "e61 rebuild".  Didn't think to search "overhaul" [sound of me smacking my forehead] . . . .

Excellent page, reading it, I can visualize this quite well.  I'm reading it over carefully, screwing up my courage.  I don't have a big shop or anything, but it looks like a few basic tools will do the trick.  Heck, I've taken apart the washer and the dryer.  Got 'em both back together, too.

Question:

I'm looking at parts, here.  Got a $35 kit with all gaskets, one spring and the shower screen.  Or for $95, the infusion pins and drain valve, but no shower screen or gicleur filter.  Of course, I can order ala carte, as well.

How likely do you think it is I will need to replace the top & bottom infusion pins?  And the drain valve and the cam lever . . . ?  Do you recommend ordering them and having them on hand?  Any guidance greatly appreciated.
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,355
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Sun Sep 9, 2012, 7:17pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

If you can go without espresso for a week or two (perish the thought) what I would recommend is taking it apart and seeing if the pins are in good shape and if you can get the seals out. Using a heat gun or other suitable source of heat, heating the junction of the pin where is screws on over the seal on each valve body will break loose any locking compound or corrosion. If the pins are not worn, then all you will need is the three seals in that regard. Whatever you find, it's better to know before ordering. Cleaning the shower screen in espresso machine cleaner or equivalent will let you know its condition. You will want to get two group gaskets- one for now and one for later. If you look in that section on the homepage of my site there is another lesson on an easy way to get the shower screen out as well. The spring is probably the infusion valve's spring. The other two are not highly critical in their force range.

As far as likelihood that pins are needed, there is no accurate way to tell without looking. While waiting for parts you can be cleaning and soaking the rest. Don't forget the Dow 111 lube. Lesson #11 is the quick-lube for the E-61. That keeps the cam lubed and that can help lengthen the life of the pins as well as the cam.

I will try to remember to add some more Meta tags to the article to make it easier to find...   ;-)

 
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ammca66564
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 9, 2012, 8:58pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

Well, given that I've still got my old Silvia, I should be in good shape.

Was doing some tinkering, and found the leakage comes in through the grouphead, dripping out through the portafilter.  A surge of heat from the element cycling on and off seems to drive the flow.  

Will keep you posted!
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frcn
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frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,355
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Sun Sep 9, 2012, 9:59pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

If the water leaks as the boiler heats and it comes through the shower screen that means that the brew valve is leaking.

 
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ammca66564
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Sep 10, 2012, 6:50am
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

That's what I'm thinking . . . I may order up a top valve infusion pin based on that . . . just in case.

That make sense?
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ammca66564
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Sep 14, 2012, 9:00pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

Well, I've got it apart.  FRCN's instructions are great.  And the machine is remarkably easy to work on.  High grade machinery is nice to work with, always worth the price.

I discovered my problem, all right.  The gasket on the brew (upper) valve was absolutely shot.  Deeply worn down into the fitting, badly decayed extra rubber pushing up out of the valve body.  No wonder I had serious leakage.  I'm going to have fun digging this out tomorrow.  Good thing I own a proper heat gun.  Great tip.

I note a tiny bit of wear to the pin face, but it's not much.  I'm wondering if I reinstall it with the unworn portion oriented right whether that will be an long term wear advantage.  But it's nowhere near the point of replacement.  That's $40 worth of good news.

Will update as I finish the job.

ammca66564: espresso valve.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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ammca66564
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 15, 2012, 9:31pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

Well, got it all taken apart and back together again.  No more dripping, and I feel like I'm moving more water and dispersing it better.  So I'm pleased on that front.  Seems to benefit now from a couple steps finer grind.  

The hitch is my lower valve is sticking, or something.  When I backflush, and hold the valve down to exhaust it through the bottom nothing happens.  Going to have to take apart the lower section again tomorrow.
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mikel51
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Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Des Mones, IA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 23, 2012, 3:20pm
Subject: Re: E61 leakage on warm-up and after shot
 

I had a similar problem when I changed the seals on my E61 group.  Help over on home-barista.com
click here
led to the solution.  When I reassembled, I didn't firmly seat the cam in the proper position--completely reinserting the cam lever prior to reassembling the bottom and top of the group.
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