tallpaul Senior Member Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 5 Location: NC Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Sep 18, 2012, 8:43pm Subject: Used ECM Cellini - different than most?
I just picked up a used ECM Cellini for a pretty good price from a Cafe that was getting out of espresso. the SN starts with 98, so I assume that means it was made in 1998, but I could be wrong. This one looks very different than most exampls i see on the web. This is what mine looks like (not actually mine, i borrowed the pic from another forum). Can anyone tell me more about it or point me to more info? Are there user manuals for it? It's missing it's water tank (it was direct plumbed at the cafe), but I'm not sure I can just get the one for the normal Cellini. The biggest difference i see is the lack of a lever on the side of the E61 group head. Is this a big disadvantage?
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Sep 19, 2012, 5:49am Subject: Re: Used ECM Cellini - different than most?
Paul You have a volumetric dosed ECM machine, this is different than the semiautomatic Rocket machine and in my humble opinion, you have the better one. Your buttons should be, single shot, double shot and constant run.
Rocket took over production of this model along with others when they split off from ECM who stayed with commercial market rather than taking on the home market also. You have the machine made by the first manufacturer not the current manufacturer.
If I were you, I would use a water bottle and a pump such as a Surflow or Flowjet to supply water to this machine rather than trying to find a water tank for pour over operation, again, in my humble opinion, you got the better machine vs pour over.
Your machine is designed to be programmed to give a set volume of water in a shot or double shot regardless of how long it takes. You can stop the shot any time you want but it tracks and stops the shot for you when you hit the correct volume in your shot. This makes dialing the machine in much easier as all you need to do is to adjust the grinder to not blond and to give a shot that takes about 25 to 35 or so seconds while the machine maintains a constant volume for you.
tallpaul Senior Member Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 5 Location: NC Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Sep 20, 2012, 8:46pm Subject: Re: Used ECM Cellini - different than most?
thanks for the info, that was great!
I've explored the websites you linked and i couldnt for the the life of me find my specific machine. There was a lot on the version with the manual lever, but not the buttons. I would love to find a schematic and/or a manual just so i can educate myself on the components. It looks to me like there is already a secondary pump in my machine. When i turn it on, it sounds like a vibration pump starts up, i assum trying to fill the tank. This is a seperate pump from the main rotary pump that pushes the water through for the shot.
I'll try to post more pics later, but it's pretty dirty now from sitting in storage. Does anyone know of a good polish for the exterior?
tallpaul Senior Member Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 5 Location: NC Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Sep 22, 2012, 8:13am Subject: Re: Used ECM Cellini - different than most?
I took the sides off and have started to clean it up. I have a 3 items I'm not sure of. I think #1 is the main pump (looks like a vibratory, not a rotary), #2 is part of the water inlet, but i don't understand why there are two sets of hoses both leading to the boiler (one goes straight in and the other goes through the flow meter). #3 looks like an add-on from the previous owner (or maybe just modified), but i'm not sure what those hoses are for. Any help would be appreciated. If there was a schematic of these machines, i would be a happy camper.
Posted Sat Sep 22, 2012, 2:38pm Subject: Re: Used ECM Cellini - different than most?
Hi, here my opinion.Hard to tell with out seeing more detailed pics though
1 - Yes, its the pump
2 - The water inlet will have 2 pipes out, 1 will go to fill the boiler when autofill is called for, the other will go thru the heat exchanger to the grouphead, via the flow meter
3 - Hard to tell without seeing where the pipes go, but often if there is a tee in the pipes, it will be for an OPV (over pressure valve) outlet back to tank, or a self priming valve for the pump
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 6:19am Subject: Re: Used ECM Cellini - different than most?
Yes, what he said. One hose to fill the boiler and one hose to the brew group through the HX system. Vibe pump VS rotary, in the cup, I am not so sure that there is much difference. The vibe is less expensive for sure and I think they are not as durable as a rotary pump
Yes, I looked and there is no picture of your machine in the link (but the space was there at the bottom of the page) but that is where your machine came from regardless.
The volumetric version used computers and sensors to control the water flow. You have an electric valve VS a handle, otherwise, not much difference. You only have ONE pump, it both fills the boiler and sends water through the HX for brew.
Contact Burges, they handled ECM and they know quite a bit about them, they may even have some manuals for you via email.
Polish, commercial metal polish or one made for SS will work fine, do not use anything abrasive or you will be sorry.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
tallpaul Senior Member Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 5 Location: NC Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Sep 25, 2012, 3:10pm Subject: Re: Used ECM Cellini - different than most?
I ended up talking with and exchanging email with Don at Burgess. He has been great. He had a couple pages of parts lists that he faxed and send over. He also has a couple used machines like mine in house and has been helping identify things for me. Seems like he was pretty involved in the early importation of ECM machines into the US, he was full of background info.
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