Oligarch Senior Member Joined: 24 Sep 2012 Posts: 2 Location: Cambridge, MA Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 5:25pm Subject: Advice for novice on first grinder and machine purchase
Hi All,
I’m new to this forum and slowly getting into espresso and related drinks. I was never much of a coffee drinker (even when working long hours in a high stress job), but have been developing a taste lately and drinking 1-2 espressos, lattes, and/or cappuccinos a day as I work on a book project. My coffee shop spending is adding up, and I’ve been considering buying a home espresso set up.
I’d like to get a grinder and machine setup with the following parameters in mind:
Number of drinks per day: 1-3 Types of drinks: Mainly espresso, latte, cappuccino Max budget for grinder and machine: approximately $750 (some flexibility here if there’s a huge jump in quality)
I really would like to get something that I won’t have to be upgrading/replacing in at least the next three years. I’m also assuming a steel casing is better than some of the plastic ones out there, so would like something with a solid build quality.
I’ve gone through the Coffeegeek buying guide, and have also tried searching the forums for earlier newbie questions like mine. While very helpful, a lot of the previously posted information is now outdated, so I was hoping to get some up-to-date comments.
Based on the idea that I should not skimp on the grinder, I was considering the following combo from Wholelattelove:
Gaggia Baby Twin for $398.34 Rancilio Rocky grinder for $349.00
Total cost $747.34
What do people think of this? Any other suggestions? Any experience with Wholelattelove? Any other vendors I should check out?
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,738 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 5:36pm Subject: Re: Advice for novice on first grinder and machine purchase
there actually are a fair number of pretty recent similar threads. However, to answer a couple of your questions...
1) Don't waste your money on a Rocky. You're better off with a Baratza Preciso. I've owned the Rocky and all you may have already read on here about the steps being too wide are true.
2) In your price range, yeah, you're looking at the Gaggia probably, since you've included the grinder in that budget. However, you also said you'd consider upping the budget if there a huge jump in quality. Yeah, there would be a huge jump in quality if you were to kick in another...say...$350-500. You might want to look into getting an Oscar (possibly even a used one).
If/when you upgrade is really a matter of your own desires and patience, more than the equipment. I used a Rancilio Silvia for about 8 years before upgrading. I paid only $450 for it, but now, it costs considerably more, and hasn't had much improvement thrown in. I used a crappy, substandard "burr" grinder for a couple or years, then a Rocky for about 5 years, before getting what I have now. You don't have to go down that path, if you don't want to , and if you DO want to, you'll go down it when you are ready. We have no way of knowing if/when, you'll ever want to upgrade. It depends what you're willing to put into this, and how good you want your drinks to be.
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 5:51pm Subject: Re: Advice for novice on first grinder and machine purchase
The Gaggias are very well thought of for entry-level machines. the Rocky not so much. A Vario refurb is $360 (reg. $460) and more highly regarded than the Rocky: Click Here (www.baratza.com)
satman Senior Member Joined: 4 Aug 2012 Posts: 1 Location: indianpolis Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 6:05pm Subject: Re: Advice for novice on first grinder and machine purchase
I bought a Seaco italia, over the years I have owned 4 of them, Costco now sells them, if their is a problem their is a return. I know it is not the thrill of the grind, but it is quick, and does a decent job. $700 buck and all in one machine...owned by LG now and great phone support.
Oligarch Senior Member Joined: 24 Sep 2012 Posts: 2 Location: Cambridge, MA Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Sep 24, 2012, 8:40pm Subject: Re: Advice for novice on first grinder and machine purchase
Thanks for the helpful replies all!
Based on the feedback, I'll ditch the Rocky idea.
In terms of grinders, what do people think re: Vario vs. Precisio vs. PL53? Some reviews say Precisio is better in some ways than the more expensive Vario, but the latter has ceramic rather than steel burrs -- which of the two is better? I see some sites listing the Vario at $450...
Also, I now see the Gaggia Twin reviews are quite weak, and so am intrigued by the PL041. If I go that route, is it better to do an all LeLit combo, or still go for the Baratza.
All the reviews I've seen about the PL041 are pretty good, and it's on the lower end of the price spectrum. Are there any minuses that I'm missing by going for that over a Gaggia?
I would go for an Oscar used, but just don't feel safe ordering one on-line, and honestly am so new to this that I wouldn't know what to look for in person (I'm in the Boston area).
Thanks again for all your comments -- any additional feedback would be much appreciated!
ShooterMcGavin Senior Member Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 53 Location: SoCal Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: N.S. Oscar Grinder: Preciso
Posted Tue Sep 25, 2012, 12:36am Subject: Re: Advice for novice on first grinder and machine purchase
If you're considering used, I'd keep an eye on craigs list for sure. I'm not sure how the market is over in boston, but I waited over 6 months searching scouring craigs/ebay everyday for a deal. My budget was also ~700 and I was set on finding a used silvia, but eventually found an oscar 2 hours away for ~400 (leaving me 300 for a preciso).
I knew what I was getting into when I bought mine. It is an annoyance. I'll probably keep mine for grinding stuff other than espresso when I upgrade from it, it's built like a tank. It beats the heck out of my old Hamilton Beach Blade grinder!
Oligarch Said:
In terms of grinders, what do people think re: Vario vs. Precisio vs. PL53?
I believe there was an excellent review on this site that compared the Vario to the Precisio. Mark Prince did it. Very knowledgeable guy when it comes to coffee...
Basically, the Vario is Baratza's top of the line grinder. If you can afford it, buy it. I don't think that the ceramic burrs should be an issue, I'm not sure why they went that route. I personally probably would choose steel burrs myself, but I think for the value you get for your money, the Vario is pretty amazing. Some people have said the Vario grinds just as well as other grinders which are double or triple the price. That's pretty awesome.
I think most here would say the Vario is hands down the best choice of those three for espresso. I've read that ceramic burrs stay sharper longer. I find that surprising, but I've seen that stated in several places. I didn't mention Vario before because of your budget, and the fact that the Preciso is clearly espresso capable. I must say though, the only "Baratza" grinders I've ever owned were not espresso capable (Solis Maestro and the Solis 166 - from before Baratza bought them out).
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