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PID vs Surfing
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > PID vs Surfing  
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Burd
Senior Member
Burd
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia PID'd
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Cuisinart Grind & Brew...
Roaster: Behmor + i-Roast
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 1:10pm
Subject: PID vs Surfing
 

If I can get the art of surfing down on my Silvia V3 is there another need for a PID?  If there is, I see too many options out there.  From the Auber, Watlow, and the Delta....is there a difference in quality that I don't see?  As for me installing it vs sending it to someone....I'm no electrical guru but can handle most DIY jobs with little effort if I take my time.  I just don't want to go cutting my case or anything drastic since curb appeal is very important to me.  

I am so confused with the whole, do PID or don't PID, and is there a plus to doing it myself or sending it out and having it done?

I would love to hear some thoughts about the pluses and minuses.  I tried searching and all of the posts I saw were from many years ago.

Thanks,
Alex
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,997
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 1:46pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

Need for a PID, probably not, but a great addition.  You might find the following thread interesting, or sleep inducing.  The thread is done on Gaggia Classic but has some applications to SBDU machines.  Boiler size and power can make some differences, but still the same concept.  Great demo of surfing and then the PID.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/571792

and, Silvia

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/591130

and many others over the last few years, search PID and Silvia.

You can set a boiler temperature and then measure output temperatures and know your offset.  That will allow you to easily change temperature and be fairly confident of the outcome.  Works great when you know where a particular coffee brews best.

You can get steam and hold a fairly tight temperature without thinking about it.  This helped me to get microfoam as I could concentrate on that and not on the steam switch.

I used a second alarm function to add brew heat with the pump running.  This can give less intrashot temperature drop, not as important for Silvia, and a quicker recovery if I want to follow with a second brew.

The only minus that I know is the cost, and time if it is DIY.  Of course if DIY the project may be fun and be on the plus side.

You can set the PID on top of the machine and have no attachment, or attach later when you decide where.

Do the PID!  :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 2:04pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

The thread with photos I did on adding a Auber PID to Sylvia.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/559841

Not hard to do and it makes Sylvia a lot easier to get something good out of.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Burd
Senior Member
Burd
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia PID'd
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Cuisinart Grind & Brew...
Roaster: Behmor + i-Roast
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 3:06pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

Thanks for the links.

Wayne you mention:  (quote)  "I decided to forgo the preinfusion kit because if I need to do that after using her with a PID, then I have a different way I was going to add preinfusion anyway." (end quote)

What did you have planned for a different preinfusion method?  That seems to be a nice feature to add on.  With the Auber having a built in timer that would allow me to put my watch back on the dresser and use it for my runs, NOT making coffee :)
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Burd
Senior Member
Burd
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia PID'd
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Cuisinart Grind & Brew...
Roaster: Behmor + i-Roast
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 6:48pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

OK now my eyes hurt from all this reading...long story short, I will be ordering an Auber in the morning.  Only question is if it will be brew + steam or brew+ steam + preinfusion.  Like I said it would be nice to have this timer function but if I won't see any benefit in the cup I can't justify the $38 extra for a snazzy timer.  

I would be interested to see if anyone thinks the PI option is worth the $38 or just settle for the brew + steam?

Alex

BTW I am very jealous of all the posts I saw where people cut the body and did the internal install.  That looks so sharp!
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,997
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 6:54pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

Burd Said:

I just don't want to go cutting my case or anything drastic since curb appeal is very important to me.

BTW I am very jealous of all the posts I saw where people cut the body and did the internal install.  That looks so sharp!

Posted September 13, 2012 link

Quick change of heart :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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Burd
Senior Member
Burd
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia PID'd
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Cuisinart Grind & Brew...
Roaster: Behmor + i-Roast
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 7:03pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

Well to be honest I really thought this was going to be a job for NASA to complete.  After looking at all the posts/pics/videos it really doesn't look too bad.  I guess it was the fear talking earlier.  I really didn't want to see the need to use a PID but after reading all of these posts.....well now I see why I'm ordering one in the morning.

I guess this is on the verge of being in the wrong category now.  Looks like I should have placed this in the mods section....sry

Someone convince me to get the PI feature....I'm right on the edge and just need that last push....haha
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,997
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 7:27pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

Talk,email, with Suyi at Auber.  I decided against it, Gaggia, but others like it.  Not much cost difference really if you look at overall cost.  After a lot of reading as you are doing, I decided that it did not seem to add much in the cup, and it is not offered as DIY.  At least if I got the information correctly, the timimg module is not active unless you buy that PID.  His kits are modded PIDs and I bought the PID and RTD, not the kit.  

The good news, you will be happy either way if you don't over think it.

You probably can add it on your own, later with a timer, if you like that sort of DIY.

Start a mod thread when/if you want help and have the PID, or leave it here.  Threads often change in the middle.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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Burd
Senior Member
Burd
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia PID'd
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Cuisinart Grind & Brew...
Roaster: Behmor + i-Roast
Posted Fri Sep 14, 2012, 11:32am
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

....and just like that I ordered it and it's on the way.  I did go with the pre-infusion mainly because of the timer feature, I felt it was worth the extra.  

As a side note:

I dealt with Suyri @Auber and all I can say is what great attention to detail.  I hadn't even ordered it and he was replying to my emails within 15 minutes, and it was more than one email...I'm sure he got a chuckle out of some of my questions.  Can't wait to get it in my hot little hands!!  

I also went with the blue since all I ever saw was red ones floating around, plus that matches the clocks on my appliances.

I will take photos all along the way of my install and be sure to start a thread in the mods section.

Thanks for the input!!!!!

Alex

If you are trying to decide what PID to buy.......all I can say is you will love the service from Auber...I did.  I'll be able to comment on the quality and features when it arrives next week.


***I am in no way affiliated with Auber or getting anything for free or any other compensation for my review and input on the products, I am just a happy customer...end of story!!!***
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Burd
Senior Member
Burd
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia PID'd
Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MCF
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Cuisinart Grind & Brew...
Roaster: Behmor + i-Roast
Posted Sun Sep 16, 2012, 8:54pm
Subject: Re: PID vs Surfing
 

Well it's Sunday night and USPS says it will be here by end of the day Monday.  Now I am starting to get a bit nervous for the install process...I am sure it will go fine but D4F since you have done this make sure you refresh the mod section all afternoon and evening because if something goes wrong I will be posting for sure!!! I am going to make sure I take some pics along the way to help anyone in the future and give another angle.  I see you saw my post about the insulation also.  I have a list of insulation companies to call in the morning to see if I can find a suitable foam.  If I can that's a plus, if not I won't lose to much sleep over it, but since it will be open might as well try to find the material.
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