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Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Confusion...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 690
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue Oct 9, 2012, 9:20pm
Subject: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

I have looked at a lot of machines and specs and reviews. I am a technical person, so I have tried to look at components as much as possible, but there is not much information publicly available as to what exact parts are in most machines.

Of all of the machines, I have decided that the CC1 offers a lot of bang for the buck.... BUT, the reliability of this machine as reported by different people/stories found in web land vary significantly (everything you read on the web is true, right?)

Most reviews of this machine seem to concur that the machine can make a pretty consistent reasonable quality shot (whatever reasonable quality means) and that the steam block is as good or better than most in this price range.

The rub, for me is the reported quality issues. I have read that a lot of people have had no issues at all, and the other extreme is a story that says most of the units shipped into one supplier on a pallet were defective. I find the last story a little hard to believe if there is no quality control at all.  Also, if the story is true, was it an early issue that was resolved?

It is true that Crossland is a new start up I guess, so it might be at risk of not surviving, particularly if these stores of quality control are true. I think with the world economy in the mess it is in, it may be safe to say any company, even the European names that have been around for a while could suffer the terrible fate of going out of business. So, this issue does not bother me too much when considering Crossland...at least, not any more than any other brand. I have to admire Mr. Crossland for putting his money where is mouth is and putting his name on a machine. I have to believe he thinks the basic design is good and worthy of his name. This dedication by him makes me want to buy the machine and support this guy.

So it gets back to reliability. I can deal with throwing out a $700.00 machine in three or four years if it happens, but not really what I want to do. I could feel better about making the purchase if parts were going to be available long term. I know Bill has reported that there is plenty of spare control circuit boards,  the most likely component to fail (his words according to someone who said they talked to him).

I want to make this purchase, but I keep getting the feeling that I am making a mistake if I do so. I know there is no shortage of opinions about what machines are the best. I fully expect to hear all kinds of things by opening up this can of worms... but I guess the thing I hope to hear the most is the justification to buy this machine. No, I don't want to be told what I want to hear... I want to hear enough facts and positive stories that I will safe in pulling the trigger on this little machine.... and for the record, I am not all that attracted to the looks of the machine. In fact, I don't care for the looks much at all, but if it will make good espresso and provide a good service life, I can overlook the homely characteristics.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,383
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 7:51am
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

Well I def like mine. It does make great, consistent shots. Excellent micro-foaming ability, just nice and smooth. Love the thermoblock for steaming, fast for switching back to brew and not having to wait as long as other sbdu machines (cept' for the Silvano which has an extra pump for the thermoblock separate) for the boiler to cool down (Silvia is way slower if you make a couple drinks like I have for when people are over). Looks I guess are love it or hate it, it's def unique looking vs some others, Silvia looks like something from 1970 to me lol. Happens to go well in my kitchen. I personally love the front loading tank b/c I have very low cabinets that would make rear filling machines a complete pain in the ass to use, the Breville Dual Boiler at least has that nifty ball that pops down to make swiveling easier. The built in PID really gives full control of most anything and easy to program for multiple settings so if you switch between beans, you can just go to X setting for them vs trying to re-dial all the time. We generally use it to make two iced lattes in the morning, and then at least two straight doubles later on, and when people are over it gets used quite a bit since everyone loves "good coffee" now when their over vs Starbucks, Folgers and whatever else they were drinking before lol, my mom was over the other day and she just wanted double after double and she doesn't even drink a lot of coffee lol.

Mines actually used, was going to buy the Breville Dual Boiler, but came across this for sale at a price I couldn't pass up as the previous owner bought it last year but upgraded to a new Rocket. Haven't really had any issues that I can think of except my PF goes to about 5:30 to lock in vs others whom said they can barely get to 6:00 position for a tight fit, but that's pry to do with the gasket needing to be replaced soon since the previous owner used the machine a ton and we do as well, most machines need the gasket replaced yearly or so. The only thing I don't really care about is the baskets are really tight to get out of the PF, but that goes for other ridged baskets on other machines as well, I'll pry get some ridge-less baskets for the spouted and bottomless PF. Bill has upgraded some stuff so he sent me that no prob, I put the new EMI filters in (which not everyone needed but seems a couple earlier machines had some error messages flash), and he also had a new group head bottom piece made of a nice dense plastic vs the brass/metal piece before. This gave better and accurate temp stability since even when heated up, that was a dense piece of metal that could absorb a decent amount of heat from water, and with the new piece the water flows through and doesn't lose temp as much as the metal piece. Pretty smart, can think of a number of machines below a grand that could use this, that don't have the tricks of upscale machines to keep group and temp stable on extraction (like e61, Breville pid controlled head etc). No idea on the shipment issue with some faulty machines, there haven't been many complaints vs what you see with some much more expensive machines on here and HB, but ya never know. There could have been a faulty shipment in the beginning but it happens, even the high end $$$ companies aren't immune from that. But whatever quirks were in the beginning seemed to of been worked out as I spoke to others and they have no problems.

Machine is built well, it's basically all metal, except for the knobs and switches and the drip tray (which has an metal grate) which is fairly normal even with some higher end  machines. Sure it doesn't have the solid and polished metal look/feel to it vs those, but then again it doesn't cost 1500/2000/3000+ and doesn't weigh 40/50/60+ pounds either. Opening it up, parts are laid out well, and if you had to down the road, should be easy to work on. Bill has great service so if you have an issues or questions, you can email him and he'll respond fairly quickly.

I'll pry still upgraded at some point, only b/c I want a nice big cool looking stainless dual boiler or maybe h/x machine, but I'll pry still keep this for my office. I can't think of a better machine at this price point or really below a grand for what this machine offers, Silvano is about a grand or so and is an excellent machine, but if I recall at one point it was on sale below 800 initially which if price stayed there would have been really hard to beat for the money, would have been less than 100 over the CC1.
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 9:23am
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

No it is not built like a 6k or 3K high dollar machine but Crossland is straight up guy i would not worry about getting your money's worth from machine or man, period.

Trying to do this without breaking my agreement regarding the CC1 Roadshow but I think that someone crossing over from a super auto to semi auto is right in the "wheelhouse" of the CC1. It steams like a beast especially for a drink or two at the time. If use to a super auto and milk drink guy you should have no issues with the quality of shots. You will probably like straight shots better than Jura but not as much as if your Jura had been an Electra, Legend or GS3 and that is what you were use to.

Be reasonable in what you expect for the money the CC1 is great transition from a Jura.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 690
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 12:56pm
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

jwoodyu Said:

Be reasonable in what you expect for the money the CC1 is great transition from a Jura.

Posted October 10, 2012 link

I think I am reasonable. I had a Delonghi and burr grinder before the Jura (many years before), and I had a bad addiction problem to lattes and mochas at the time. My old Delonghi looked very much like an Oscar, so I am not interested in the Oscar simply because I am tired of that look (not a good reason I know). I will be ordering a Vario-W to use with it, so it should have every chance to provide me with the taste I want.

I took a Pumpkin Pie Spice Latte to the office today for a staff person that wanted to try one. I think my own lattes have a weak coffee taste. My staff person thought it had a strong coffee taste and a little bitter, but overall gave it a 7 out of 10 and said it was much better than most coffee they drank. The espresso was made with my ENA 4.

Maybe my taste buds are just screwed up.
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 1:12pm
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

I tossed two high dollar Jura's in the garbage over the years during the learning process. My gut is  you would be plenty happy with the CC1 and a Vario.

PS the Jura's hit the crapper because of mechanical issues. Then my eyes were opened and the learning began.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,383
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 1:23pm
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

jwoodyu Said:

I tossed two high dollar Jura's in the garbage over the years during the learning process. My gut is  you would be plenty happy with the CC1 and a Vario.

PS the Jura's hit the crapper because of mechanical issues. Then my eyes were opened and the learning began.

Posted October 10, 2012 link

True, difference between my friends Jura C9 and my setup is night and day, just no comparison to quality and taste. He's looking along the lines of a Alex Duetto, Brewtus or a Rocket. I actually almost bought a Jura before I knew anything about superautos, I just thought it looked cool and liked that you could push a button basically and have a shot or latte.... however after actually trying drinks on a superauto, so glad I never bought one lol.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 690
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

I have made the decision to order the CC1 and vario-W... already done.

I would like to have a starting point on the grinder if there is such a thing. I assume as well reputed as this grinder is, there is a lot of repeatability between one machine and others. Can someone give me a setting to start at on a medium roast? Maybe it will prevent me from wasting a lot of coffee if I start out pretty close to the right grind. Right now I have fresh roasted Redbird, Elemental 228, and Blue Bottle 17ft Ceiling in the house. All roasted within the last 10 days or so.  I am thinking I may have to go to a darker roast to punch through in the milk based drinks, but we will see.
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 2:12pm
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

CMIN Said:

He's looking along the lines of a Alex Duetto, Brewtus or a Rocket.

Posted October 10, 2012 link

He wont be sorry. Yeah I bought the Duetto what after the last Jura died, I would likely do the same again. The Elektra T-1 and Izzo Pompei would be about the only things that would give me pause until i got into stupid money like a Speedster or Synesso Hydra.

I actually gutted my last Jura before tossing it. I know i say it all the time on the boards but if you have a super auto or know someone that does oily beans are bad bad bad, grinding fine is bad bad bad, doing both is certain death via the dreaded " ERROR 8 ".

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

Just wait for the review of the CC1 roadshow, on second thought don't, many have been waiting for almost a year, yes I went there, LOL.

I am seriously considering the CC1 for my second home in MI. The other option is to upgrade my Oscar and put that there but I really like the mobility of my Oscar for outdoor parties at my house in PA or taking it to a friends house's for gatherings (the downside of a plumb in machine is no traveling). I feel the CC1 will be a better match for my friend that lives in the MI house compared to the learning curve of a HX machine for a newbie as well. I feel like the Cc1 should be fine for two people making drinks but would not really think it could keep up with multiple drinks in a row which Oscar does no problem, so consider your normal usage as well as if you would use it while entertaining.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2012, 2:30pm
Subject: Re: Confusion persists in choosing a machine.... CC1: Talk me into it!
 

jwoodyu Said:

He wont be sorry. Yeah I bought the Duetto what after the last Jura died, I would likely do the same again. The Elektra T-1 and Izzo Pompei would be about the only things that would give me pause until i got into stupid money like a Speedster or Synesso Hydra.

Posted October 10, 2012 link

The T-1 or the Clibali Junior Casa DT1 are more then likely my upgrade and the Speedster will remain my dream machine ( on more then one occasion in the BST I had to knock myself unconscious to not buy a speedster listed). I guess I need to go do some research on the Pompei to see what that is all about, thanks. (Edit:  never mind, the Pompei is just to tall for a kitchen setup for me.)
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