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New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New La Spaziale...  
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 2:35pm
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

diggi Said:

Couldn't have guessed that from the dozens of other responses you gave.

Posted October 20, 2012 link

Dozens? Hyperbole much?

That's fine.  Seems weird why you're so interested in this thread if you're not interested in the machine; I just hope you're not out to bash this machine no matter what the result.  Don't take this the wrong way, but try not to make this a negative experience for those who are truely interested in learning more about this new machine.  We get that you don't like technology.

Nobody who has ever seen the array of blinking LEDs that line the walls of my house would say that I "don't like technology." I am, due to the fact that I'm quite heavily involved in technology on a day-to-day basis, aware of when something is being hyped, however. Hype this far in advance of something being available generally means lack of actual substance. It may be that this machine is the greatest thing since Achille Gaggia fathered the modern espresso machine, but until I see (or taste) actual improvement in the cup, I'll continue to be skeptical and encourage others to be so, as well. Show me that it's better on a practical level, and I'll sing its praises. But don't expect me to get all gushy over some glamor shots of a touch screen and a USB port. Lots of things have both, and don't work well at their intended purposees. I do notice that none of the promotion is saying anything about shot quality, though, but only talking about looks and convenience.

 That's fine and a personal preference, so nobody would expect you to like this machine if that is the case.  I could care less what level of technology is used, if it means an improvement in how the shot tastes.  Of course feel free to ignore my statements (I'm certainly no authority here), I just see this going as a back and fourth where no exchange of information is actually taking place.

Of course - because there's no concrete information anywhere, all we have is rumor and speculation. Throwing a little cold water on the hype is probably a good idea. Until there's solid evidence that it pulls a better shot, all it is is eye candy.
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lowellw2
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Joined: 4 Apr 2010
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Location: Austin TX
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Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 5:21pm
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

Gee, we can discuss whether the glass is full, empty, half full or half empty, but IMHO given the solid quality of the shots produced by La Spaziale machines (including the Vivaldi) and their durability in many many homes and cafes throughout the world sorta throwa a little cold water on this professed skepticism of whether the product in the cup will be any good.  I have yet to read the first hype about whether the quality in the cup will be improved from what was already considered by many to be pretty good. So far the "hype" seems to be about changes to the user interface. I guess adding an LCD screen for an array of blinking LEDs must affect the shots somehow.  Maybe the new little LEDs lighting the brew area overcook the shots.
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
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Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 6:12pm
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

I'm not saying it won't be good. As I've noted previously in this thread, a Vivaldi is on my personal short list of machines that I would own, which should say that I'm not anti-La Spaziale in any way. I'd love to own one of their machines. The question, for me at least, is if the added technology makes for an improvement in the cup, or just added flash. I'm sure the cup will be up to the standards of the existing machines, but unless the new gadgetry makes it better, why add it, other than to try and cater to the "latest and greatest" crowd?

Maybe I should be happy, since this may mean that upgrade-itis will strike enough existing Vivaldi owners that they'll move, en masse, to the new machine, making for a market glut of affordable, "last-gen" versions that will be affordable by ordinary folk like me. Most of my other technology is "bleeding edge," but I don't insist that everything be.
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lowellw2
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Location: Austin TX
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Espresso: Breville BES900XL
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Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 7:40pm
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

I think and agree with the thought that upgrade-itus may strike a lot of current owners.  My guess is that even if the internals do not change much, a lot of users will get the new machine as flash does sell a lot of products nowdays. I'm guilty, but do have some limits to buying flash as I don't have an iPhone 5 yet.  Only lots of speculation and bells and whistles mentioned so far, but CCS is apparently ready to answer questions. Pressure profiling on a lower cost machine would really be a dream. Does anyone know if pressure profiling can be done by controlling the pump output or is it more of a pressure relief circuit control type of thing.
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 849
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Oct 21, 2012, 12:16am
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

Vibe pumps you can DC pulse to control the pressure. Rotary pumps, I believe, you can gear. Putting something like a CVT on a rotary pump controlled by a feedback circuit might be an interesting approach.
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diggi
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diggi
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Posted Sun Oct 21, 2012, 3:51am
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

GVDub Said:

.... if the added technology makes for an improvement in the cup, or just added flash. I'm sure the cup will be up to the standards of the existing machines, but unless the new gadgetry makes it better, why add it...

Posted October 20, 2012 link

This is implied.  If it doesn't make a better product, then it isn't better; I thought that went without saying.  Nobody has stated that it is better.  It does look promising.

I don't think we're actually saying anything different here, just seem to be speaking two different languages.  Most see this splash and hope that there is something great on the horizon.  What I gather from your responses is that you see the splash and put up your guard, skeptical about the added technological gadgetry.  I think we're all doing the same thing here. Just holding our breath.  Some can afford to take the plunge and hope for the best.  Others will wait and see.  I don't think there has been much blind praise about how great the new shots will taste.  But I think it is only natural to assume this will be improvement given the company's track record.   That doesn't mean that assumption is correct....now only if my crystal ball was working today.
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zedex
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Espresso: Spaz v2
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Posted Sun Oct 21, 2012, 4:48pm
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

GVDUB.. just go buy one already. We know you want one, flash or not. :)
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 849
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Oct 21, 2012, 5:11pm
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

zedex Said:

GVDUB.. just go buy one already. We know you want one, flash or not. :)

Posted October 21, 2012 link

Thanks, but I'll take your V2 off your hands at a bargain price when you give in to the fever.
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zedex
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Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz v2
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Posted Mon Oct 22, 2012, 1:13pm
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

I will keep you posted. :)
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chriscoffee
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Joined: 5 Mar 2002
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Location: Albany
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Posted Sat Oct 27, 2012, 11:27am
Subject: Re: New La Spaziale 'Dream Machine' from CCS???
 

I have been working with La Spaziale for a couple of years on this machine. The idea was to make it affordable and to address Vivaldi's shortcomings. For example I hated the previous timer now it is built in so even thought the machine will cost a little more the timer is no longer an added expense. I also disliked the way error codes were displayed by blinking lights. Now they simply appear in English, or whatever language you choose the machine to operate in. Although the Vivadi II is very temperature stable people want a machine in this class to operate using a PID and adjustable in Fahrenheit. Done. I am a big Apple guy and I like touch screen application so to do the Italians. I remember one of my trips to Italy when I had one of the first I phones and they were not available there yet. Everyone wanted to see it. I am including with each machine a Simm card reader and writer that simply plugs into the front of the machine.  Let's face it we will come up with additional things we will want the machine to do and probably find a bug or two along the way. However isn't it nice to know you will be able to go to my site and down load the latest version of the software and upload it to your machine. How about if your father likes your machine just the way you have yours set up and he wants one just like yours. He can order one, you can download your profiles to a Simm card and he can upload them to his machine. Done. Profiles were originally thought of as individualís profiles, in other words you change to Chris or Mary and their settings are saved. Those settings included temperature, pre infusion time, and length of shot should you choose to do volumetric dosing. You can however use those profiles as coffee profiles as well, think outside the box, different coffees different temperatures, and different lengths of pre infusion. The point is this machine if purchased this Christmas season will not become out of date anytime in the foreseeable future. I am always listing to my customers and coming up with things myself to make my machines two steps ahead of the completions machines. It is a pleasure to work with La Spaziale all these years. Spaziale is a family owned business and all the players I first worked with several years ago are all still there. One more thing there will also be a Mini version that will also be available this Christmas season. No one is trying to be secretive about this machine I simply do not want to make any false statements about what it can do and canít do. The machines are being built as I type so too is the software being worked on. The machines will be on a ship to us before the software will more than likely be finished. We have 20 days on the water for the machines,  it will only take seconds to send us the software. As we bench test each machine prior to shipping we will upload the software.

Chris Nachtrieb, Pres.
Chris' Coffee Service, Inc.
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