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What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > What's the best...  
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 849
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 2:38pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

majorzx3 Said:

When did I say that convenience trumps all??  I said that BOTH HX and double boilers make excellent shots.  It's just that double boilers are a tad more convenient to use.
If there was a superauto that could make as good a shot as i can make with my Brewtus  I would consider it just for the simple fact that then my wife could get her cappuccino without me pulling the shots  :-)

BTW I totally agree with you regarding the Breville.

Posted October 25, 2012 link

As I said, it's a reductio ad absurdum argument. You did cite convenience as a reason to go with a DB. Maybe so, maybe not, but in the end, it's what's in the cup and what the machine operator is most comfortable with that are key, and that comfort frequently involves staying within the budget they have set. I think we, all too often around here, have a tendency to try and push somebody towards the system we prefer. Sometimes, though, for many reasons - space, budget, disinclination to go that far into the fiddly bits - what's right for us may not be someplace the other person can follow you to.

My personal preference is for manual levers. This hasn't precluded me from owning and learning to use other machines. But I firmly believe that the world would be a better place if we all owned an open-boiler, gravity-fed, espresso-only, ristretto monster like my Caravels. :-)
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 849
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 2:41pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

jwoodyu Said:

You know the Charlie Brown bit with Lucy and football? You know the one were she put the ball down for him to kick? Charlie says I am not going to do it, I am not, she will just pull the ball away, I am not , I am not, I am not then loosing all control runs up to kick the ball she bulls it out and poor Charlie winds up on the back, AGAIN.

Just saying we wind up here no matter how hard we try not to. if it is not the HX DB thing then its the doser doserless thing.

Posted October 25, 2012 link

The only realistic solution is to have one of everything.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,011
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 2:53pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

Amen!

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,140
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 3:18pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

jwoodyu Said:

You know the Charlie Brown bit with Lucy and football? You know the one were she put the ball down for him to kick? Charlie says I am not going to do it, I am not, she will just pull the ball away, I am not , I am not, I am not then loosing all control runs up to kick the ball she bulls it out and poor Charlie winds up on the back, AGAIN.

Just saying we wind up here no matter how hard we try not to. if it is not the HX DB thing then its the doser doserless thing.

Posted October 25, 2012 link

I would like to believe this topic has progressed a lot since the day that people believed firmly that a DB was hands down a better machine then a HX. even Dan over at HB gives the impression he felt that way in the comparison of the Cimbali Junior versus La Marzocco Linea before he did this taste test. Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

I had to retread the OPs original post to refresh my memory of the question though. IMHO I don't think the budget allows for a worth while choice of a DB but puts him into a very good HX machine.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,011
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 4:07pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

We have probably scared the OP off with all the bickering.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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russel
Senior Member
russel
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 437
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: 73' Cremina, '74 Club,...
Grinder: Super Caimanos x2, Forte BG,...
Drip: V60, Kalita Wave, Clever,...
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 4:10pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

GVDub Said:

The only realistic solution is to have one of everything.

Posted October 25, 2012 link

I'm working on that...so far my conclusion is that the weakest link is usually the operator (that would be me, and my palate).
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__________
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 883
Location: .
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Awaiting spare parts ;o(
Grinder: None
Vac Pot: None
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 5:07pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

Dear OP

In your price range, there isn't a good one so hang on to your money and stay with what you have.

As to which is best, the advice you get will be largely what people already own.

If your budget goes higher it opens other options which would be much more worthwhile.  

(Sorry to be so negative, but I wish this is advice someone had given me a few years ago).
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,140
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 5:34pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

russel Said:

I'm working on that...so far my conclusion is that the weakest link is usually the operator (that would be me, and my palate).

Posted October 25, 2012 link

LOL! If the grinder is up to the task there still is dose, distribution, and tamp to give that hot water delivery system a chance to pull a great shot. Sure the mantra this year is "tamping is the least important part as long as you are consistent", well consistently tamping with the same pressure out of level will produce some very inconsistent results so as far as I am concerned the mantra going around is about as worthless as the old advice that you have to tamp at 30lb. Tamping is still as important as distribution and consistency, however after a few years with the same equipment (shoter for many) none of this matters since muscle memory takes over and the brain can just stay on auto pilot.
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tglodjo
Senior Member
tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 5:40pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

We have probably scared the OP off with all the bickering.

Posted October 25, 2012 link

Just a little :)

I've decided to hold off on upgrading and stick it out with the Silvia, though I do appreciate all the advice provided in my post. And yes, I understand that everyone has different needs that require different machines. Though with my original post, I was more just interested in hearing people tell me why they chose their machines and why the prefer that machine so I could get a picture of all the different uses and the machines people choose for those uses.
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__________
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 883
Location: .
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Awaiting spare parts ;o(
Grinder: None
Vac Pot: None
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Thu Oct 25, 2012, 5:55pm
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

tglodjo Said:

Just a little :)

I've decided to hold off on upgrading and stick it out with the Silvia,

Posted October 25, 2012 link

A wise decision.  Skip the "prosumers" until you have the space/cash/enthusiasm for a proper machine.  You would not regret it.
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