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What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > What's the best...  
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 849
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 3:15am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

__________ Said:

A wise decision.  Skip the "prosumers" until you have the space/cash/enthusiasm for a proper machine.  You would not regret it.

Posted October 25, 2012 link

How priggish a statement that is.  Your saying the collective wisdom of the membership is completely inferior to your opinion of what ever a “proper” machine is.

__________ Said:

Don't tell me that my equally held opinion is "wrong" just because it doesn't chime with your own.

Posted October 26, 2012 link

The only opinion you have offered so far in this thread is that your opinion is superior and failed to offer any particulars regarding features, functions or specific models to consider as requested in the OP.

Perhaps if we work hard someday the “great unwashed” and the OP will attain a level of understanding great enough to warrant a meaningful response from you. Until then we will just have to be content in our inferiority

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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Almeida
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Oct 2012
Posts: 7
Location: France
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 5:07am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

calblacksmith Said:

There has been a lot of discussion on "dead water" etc but the overall feeling is that it isn't a big deal. I think you have it backward though as the water in a HX boiler NOT  a DB boiler that retains water. However, the water in the steam boiler does NOT have contact with the brew water so as far as brew water is concerned the point is moot. The water in the steam boiler remains there a long time if you do not steam milk or draw hot water off for other uses.

The water in a DB is cycled through at a pretty good pace. Some may argue that even heating the water once then letting it cool and heat it again the next day will cause off flavors. They may be right to some extent but I can't taste the difference and for me, this is a non issue and I personally think much is made of nothing in someones effort to "put down" one machine over another to help in their mind justify what they bought but as I very often say YMMV.




It sounds like a good project for someone who really wants to know, ...... how about you do it then report back on what YOU find?

Posted October 25, 2012 link

Yes, that's I intend to do it, but with a kettle, since I do not have yet any machine to do it... (I prefer not to do it with my super-automatic Saeco, I don't know what she has in her belly...).

Anyway, about the water on the DB, if I can empty it out easily from time to time, it must not be a problem. The water will not remain a long time in the boiler, and even a little bit less of mineralization is not a problem. As jwoodyu says "Bullshit!".

And for a thermometer in the GH, I think it is very useful (more than in the portafilter, where there is a mess of different temperatures - which was very well explained in some other messages), and it should be a standard production on all HX machines. I *see* what kind of water I send to the coffee! The Saint Thomas of espresso!!
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 5:15am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

The "you just bought this and you need another machine already" fight is why I skipped the single boiler and went to a light duty commercial HX machine.  My less than $500 got me a machine I don't want to upgrade till I get to the $3-6k range.  Sure it is not pretty, sure it is not got gauges but I know I don't have to have either to make good espresso.  And it is very likely that I will get another type of machine (one of the new levers) and keep this one for parties.

If you don't have to fight the spouse and you have the cash you should get another machine if you are sure you want it.  Only you can tell how likely you will be happy with the machine in your price range for the next X number of years.  If it will not make you happy for say 3-5 years then I say save your money longer till you can afford one that you will not be tired of in a few months.  I can honestly say unless you gave me another machine, I find a another crazy 100$ deal for a commercial one group or I win the lotto, I am not upgrading any time soon.  I know Oscar will be mine for a long time.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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majorzx3
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 22
Location: Stoney Creek, ON
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Brewtus II
Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless
Vac Pot: french press x4
Drip: don't drink that
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 6:44am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

in 2005 I purchased the full-automatic (volumetric dosing) Ala di Vittoria La Valentina HX machine.  (Keep in mind that, in 2005, the only single-group DB machines out there were the La Marzocco Linea Semi-Auto for $6,000+ -- the full-auto version was $1k more -- and, IIRC, the now-discontinued La Spaziale Vivaldi I.)

Posted October 25, 2012 link

I think you forget the then wholy grail of double boilers the Reneka Techno.
I had my mind set on it before that was also stopped being imported to NA.  darn shame too.
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majorzx3
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 22
Location: Stoney Creek, ON
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Brewtus II
Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless
Vac Pot: french press x4
Drip: don't drink that
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 6:52am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

GVDub Said:

My personal preference is for manual levers. This hasn't precluded me from owning and learning to use other machines. But I firmly believe that the world would be a better place if we all owned an open-boiler, gravity-fed, espresso-only, ristretto monster like my Caravels. :-)

Posted October 25, 2012 link

I hear you!
I am in total love withe The MicroCasa a Leva.   Total Love. (i'm secretly stashing away funds as we speak.) Dont tell my wife !
i would  have got it instead of the double boiler if i didn't have frequent visitors craving for cappuccinos they cant really get anywhere close to  where I live.
I have an Italian acquaintance who owns a top of the line Saeco who made fun of me spending that much on my setup and still have to work for my coffee!!
He made fun of me no more after he came over for a taste :-)  !!!  She said this was the best cappucino she has ever had , including Italy.

Zed
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majorzx3
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jan 2002
Posts: 22
Location: Stoney Creek, ON
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Brewtus II
Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless
Vac Pot: french press x4
Drip: don't drink that
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 6:58am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

tglodjo Said:

Qualin,

You're thoughts are encouraging. I was definitely beginning to get in over my head and rationalizing my budget. You should have seen my wife's face when I told her what I wanted to do! (And that's just when I was trying to get her on my side for an Oscar!)

Jason,

It's just like you said: the Internet has informed me of how much more there is to do and to learn on all kinds of different machines! I haven't had the Silvia long, so I definitely need to practice more of my skills before considering the upgrade. I certainly appreciate all your thoughts and advice!

Posted October 25, 2012 link


Hey you have no idea what i had to do to convince my wife :-)

I have a suggestion for you, which is what i ended up doing that made it palatable for my wife.
I told everyone about my coffee machine dream.  I proposed that anyone wishing to give me presents,  could give me cash and when all the funds were there I would buy the machine and they could all come over and enjoy it too.  
Funny,  everyone liked that idea!
long story short:  2 Christmases and a Birthday later I got my machine!
good luck to whatever you decide btw!
Zed
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 849
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 7:12am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

Wives get over that type of thing,,worst case the swelling will go down in a few days.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,745
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 7:19am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

word of advice though, when heading into the garage to sleep at night, take a nice blanket, it really helps keep you warm at this time of year. Unless you are sleeping in the dog house with a large dog, they really keep you warm but sometimes dog farts are enough to leave and "get some air" on occasion.
Don't ask how I know, just don't ask :D

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,041
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 7:25am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

calblacksmith Said:

..., when heading into the garage to sleep at night, take a nice blanket, ...

Posted October 26, 2012 link

It might be helpful to take along your beautiful new commercial espresso machine as well and keep it running all night. It gives off nice and cosy heat. LOL

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,383
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Oct 26, 2012, 7:27am
Subject: Re: What's the best prosumer espresso machine?
 

qualin Said:

Jason, I made a deal with my wife which seems to have helped somewhat if you find that you may be getting some resistance . . .

Posted October 26, 2012 link

See my above post.  No resistance.  Ever.  (Although I have said that it was proof positive she loved me when she let me drill two holes in our granite counter so that I could plumb-in the Elektra!)

OTOH, Bud, I've created monsters . . . not only does my wife refuse to get out of bed in the morning until I bring her a latte, but my 18-year old daughter does the same!  (She's in for a rude awakening when she goes off to college!)  ;^)

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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