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Swapping out the BDB
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JohnLyn
Senior Member
JohnLyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Wed Oct 31, 2012, 4:38pm
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

zedex Said:

You have some weird electrical problems and even weirder, does Breville not know what err 2 is? Does breville not speak with the Chinese manufacturers to see what err2 means.
 Since its machine #4 i doubt very much that its the machines fault. There is something funny with your outlet.

Short story.
I lived in an appt when i was younger. I bought myself a new drip coffee machine. It was an under counter mount black and decker. Well, this machine lasted about 6 months and the element fried. Took it back to the store with reciept. I walked out with a new machine. 2 months later, same thing. This went on for at least 8 machines and since my 1 year warranty kept with every new machine i just kept returning them. I thought black and decker coffee makers were complete crap . well. I moved out of that apartment and voila. No more coffee maker problems. EVER..
 So whatever it was with that outlet in the apartment, it kept frying my elements. Who would have thunk it.

So. I think its your house outlet. Intermittent short? intermittent loss of ground? Intermittent loss of neutral? Something.

Posted October 31, 2012 link

I tend to agree... but the electrician assessed it and said it was OK. What would you do at this point?

And no, they do not know what the Err1 or 2 message means. Just that something has gone wrong and that they need to exchange it and that is after they have talked to a tech. it's like it's voodoo or something. You would think that a particular message means something in particular.

The other funny thing is that nothing is getting burned out here. I get the message and the machine won't allow you to turn it off. So I unplug it and then plug it in again. The machine keeps working to it's regular high standards. what I have done is used the machine until the replacement has arrived and the Err1 message has only reappeared on the same machine one occaision. It's like it forgets that it gave me that message as goes back to performing as usual...

CMIN Said:

Yeh that sucks b/c the machine makes incredible coffee consistently, it's a beast for the $. Good luck with the next machine you choose.

Posted October 31, 2012 link

It does suck. With this machine I get no anticipatory upgraditis because of it's performance and the "in the cup" results. But I feel like I am running out of options. Maybe I'll get the electrician to have another look, maybe I'll move the set up and try a different outlet. I need ideas here... it's frustrating...

And then I worry about getting a different, more expensive machine, only to have the same thing happen...

Of course I want to blame the machine because I have had things checked out
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zedex
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 129
Location: B.C Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz v2
Grinder: vario
Posted Wed Oct 31, 2012, 6:13pm
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

I would try a new outlet.
Did your electrician check that specific outlet? Intermittent problems are a real bitch to diagnose for obvious reasons. Im gonna wager 10 canadian tire dollars that its your outlet.
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DaveS
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Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
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Posted Wed Oct 31, 2012, 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

I hate to suggest it but I would consider giving up on this one. I suspect you occasionally are getting low voltage for lengthy periods at peak energy use times if your situation is as you described. Most electronic devices will work within certain tolerances but perhaps the BDB is sensitive to low voltage - some electronics can be damaged by running undervoltage and a surge protector won't deal with it. If that is the case a different outlet won't solve the issue. You can deal with it by throwing more money at power conditioning  (See what lengths home roasters will go to solve this issue in their forum) but I would be done with this at this stage.
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JohnLyn
Senior Member
JohnLyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Thu Nov 1, 2012, 7:08am
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

DaveS Said:

I hate to suggest it but I would consider giving up on this one. I suspect you occasionally are getting low voltage for lengthy periods at peak energy use times if your situation is as you described. Most electronic devices will work within certain tolerances but perhaps the BDB is sensitive to low voltage - some electronics can be damaged by running undervoltage and a surge protector won't deal with it. If that is the case a different outlet won't solve the issue. You can deal with it by throwing more money at power conditioning  (See what lengths home roasters will go to solve this issue in their forum) but I would be done with this at this stage.

Posted October 31, 2012 link

Are you saying that you would give up on the BDB because it may be more sensitive to potential undervoltage? But that another machine may not have the same sensitivity? (I wish Breville would ask questions like that and I will ask them about low voltage tolerance.

How would you diagnose undervoltage? I have the machine on a short medium duty extension cord, so that is likely lowering the voltage slightly. And what does one do to ensure that their power supply provides consistently high voltage. I would do more to fix this to protect this machine or any other  that I choose to buy in order to avoid the same problem.

Thanks everyone...
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zedex
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 129
Location: B.C Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz v2
Grinder: vario
Posted Thu Nov 1, 2012, 7:22am
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

Have you always used an extension cord? With your 4 machines was there a certain time of the day where you would get the err2?
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JohnLyn
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JohnLyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Thu Nov 1, 2012, 3:41pm
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

zedex Said:

Have you always used an extension cord? With your 4 machines was there a certain time of the day where you would get the err2?

Posted November 1, 2012 link

It is mostly on in the morning, so that is when I noticed it. and as I said, it will come up one day and I may not see it again before the machine is shipped off 3-4 weeks later with the machine working properly. With this machine I use the extension. It puts the machine in the right spot. With the other machines I was using a older Power strip rated at 1875. I have since learned that they my old power strips are glorified extention cords and lose their surge protection abilty over time. The only suggestion that Breville has made is to not use a power strip even if it is a new good quality one.

I've borrowed a fluke to test voltage at different times to see what average output is. I have also borrowed a tool to assess the grounding of my wiring.
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JohnLyn
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JohnLyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Thu Nov 1, 2012, 4:53pm
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

1st readings:

first of all my ground wires check out. so all good there.

Now I am probably going to express the next readings in funny language, so feel free to giggle.

Nothing in out let: 122 top and bottom

Powerbar with stereo, light and cd player on plugged into top: 122 under load in the top; BDB plugged in but not on: 122 on bottom under load

Turn BDB on: drops to 114 under load, top raises to 126 whether anything is plugged in or not.

Various readings with the extension cord don't seem to alter the voltage.

I hope that makes sense. does this raise any alarms for anyone? I was surprised with the drop under load as well as the raising of the other receptacle.
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JohnLyn
Senior Member
JohnLyn
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 243
Location: Golden, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy
Grinder: Vario
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Fri Nov 2, 2012, 6:44am
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

Took a reading before bed and all the same readings were 2 v higher. This morning I took another reading. of course, the machine by then is warmed up because it starts up before I wake.  reading was 122 under load and the top receptacle was also 122. So I guess the drop yesterday was due to the BDB being at max draw with both boilers warming up, and then once warmed up it evens out. I also continue to notice that the reading at the extension cord is the same as directly at the receptacle.

i'm going to take three readings a day to see the average voltage and then ask the electrician what it means.

Do these voltage readings sound right?
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dsblv
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Joined: 2 Dec 2006
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Location: Bellevue, WA
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Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
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Posted Fri Nov 2, 2012, 9:29am
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

It seems the answer to the problem would be to stop using the extension cord.  You've experienced the same issue on 4 different machines.   Most manufacturers recommend against using an extension cord with espresso machines due to their heavy current draw.  Why not eliminate the last variable?
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CraigA
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CraigA
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Posted Fri Nov 2, 2012, 9:43am
Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
 

How long is the extension cord, & is it just a cheap one?, what is the gauge of the wires (it should be imprinted on the cord).
If it's 14 AWG (American Wire Gauge), it's not really adequate. If you must use an extension cord, a contractor grade 12 gauge or better (larger gauge) is the way to go., to prevent any voltage drop due to smaller gauge wires (generates heat in the cord due to a higher resistance) & has a lower total amperage capacity.

The contractor grade cord won't have a voltage drop or limited current capacity, but will have a higher total maximum current capacity to spare without any problems.

 
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